Two combos, which one's faster?

Capri306 · 03-13-2001, 11:28 AM

A friend and I are deciding on our combos we wanna run this summer, so I'll give 'em to you and you tell me which car's gonna be faster. Both cars will be running 75mm MAF and 24 lb/hr injectors. These are just the basic speed parts that will make the differences.

Car ONE: My '87 Notchback. I'll be using Windsor Jr. (1.94, 58cc) heads, Cobra intake, 65mm TB, BBK full lengths w/ off-road H-pipe, and an XE266HR cam. I have 3.73's already (trans is AOD w/ shift kit).

Car TWO: His '89 GT will be equipped with Windsor (2.02) heads shaved to 58cc's, an E303 cam, 65mm TB, unequal length shorties w/o cats, and an Edelbrock Performer intake. Gears are stock (trans is T5).

FYI cam specs:
XE266 has 0.544/0.555 lift, 266*/274* adv, 216*/224* @ 0.050.

E303 has 0.498/0.498 lift, 282*/282* adv, 220*/220* @ 0.050.

Lemme know what you think! THANKS!

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

Forcedpower · 03-13-2001, 12:13 PM

I think car two will be slower b/c he has 2.02's So less tq. Then on top of that he doesn't have any gear. I could be wrong though.

------------------
'93 LX 425rwhp/410rwtq

StreetStang37 · 03-13-2001, 01:02 PM

Thats some fat valve lift you got there. Im not sure what would be faster. If you had a stall converter, then I'd pick car 1. Probably car 1 though even with out the converter.

------------------
1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

Skyman · 03-13-2001, 03:23 PM

These are going to be very close. I give whoever gets the better tune the edge. Also you have gears and he doesnt. Not to mention the longtubes and lighter car. I go with the notch.

Why not use a 70mm TB. All higher HP engines use 70 or 75's. I just made 400fwhp with a 70. Also I question the cobra intake. They say its only good to 400hp and I just put that down with a mild engine combo, so I bet it would be restricting.

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, 2 1/4" exhaust, and 4.10's.
332RWHP@5500
351RWTQ@3750
Runs on 87 Octane!

blue00gt · 03-13-2001, 06:46 PM

Given the powerband of the Performer intake and the cam that car 2 will have, I agree that 2.02's are probably too big of a valve - seems like a mismatched combo that probably wouldn't make impressive power on low or top end. Should either go with 1.94's or a more agressive cam and intake...

Unit 5302 · 03-13-2001, 07:10 PM

I think it depends on traction and launch.

Sky is running some TFS heads, which will flow some serious numbers with the E cam and the performer.

I think car #1 has too much cam, and without a converter the cam will hurt low end as well.

I think car #2 has crappy gearing.

I'm saying car #2 will be quicker, although neither will be a rocket out of the hole.

lx mike · 03-13-2001, 07:25 PM

car #1 has better combo even with the a.o.d it will be faster and more fun to drive.

car #2 has good heads and cam but no gear so untill r.p.m's get up it will be a bit of a dog off the line even with the stick tranny.

what tires on each car? also what converter in the aod?? by stock gears do you mean 3.08's?

------------------
93-LX: 5 Speed, Flow's with H-Pipe, 3.73's Sub's and K&N.

juiceman · 03-13-2001, 07:37 PM

the 2 cars will be close. car 1 has the right setup all around. cam is fine for those heads, the lift will help them breath yet the dur. and lsa maintain low rpm power. the only down side is the aod tranny.
car 2 has great heads and an intake that will allow them to work, however, 202 valves on stock bore motor dont really help. having them milled brings the comp. back up which is good. but its not likely the motor will be reved to 6500 where those heads will want to work with that motor. plus no gears so its not likely to work well. but the stick trans will help a little.
so its more likely that car 1 will be quicker, but if given the room car 2 will run car 1 down. power bands are different but not neccesarily power.

Capri306 · 03-13-2001, 07:40 PM

Okay for the sake of this discussion, let's say both cars have BFG Comp T/A's and Car ONE has a 2400 stall. Car Two has 3.08 gears, correct.

The XE266 isn't supposed to necessitate a higher stall converter, BTW. Xtreme Energy cams are Comp Cams' latest technology that are supposedly better with engine vacuum and have an aggressive profile.

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

Skyman · 03-13-2001, 07:49 PM

Whats with 2.02" valves not helping? My car is stock bore and I seemed to make a lot of power with them. Also I don't know about these big cams, I see a lot of guys with them and stroker on Corral not making anymore power than me. Whats the powerband on your cam capri? It maybe too high. I'm not so high on all this big cam high revving stuff anymore seeing my dyno results. I have flat torque all across the board peaking at 5500 making plenty of power.

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, 2 1/4" exhaust, and 4.10's.
332RWHP@5500
351RWTQ@3750
Runs on 87 Octane!

juiceman · 03-13-2001, 08:45 PM

skyman, there are alot of variable you dont see. for one youre comparing your heads to others. there are big differences such as runner lenght, volume, chamber design, etc. im not saying you cant make power with 202 valves but they generaly lose low end power.
as for big cams, these are not big cams. lift is just a small part of a cams job. the ex266 is a good small cam. nothing says that you will definately get more power with one cam as apposed to another.

Unit 5302 · 03-13-2001, 10:09 PM

With the addition of a stall converter Car #1 wins, no problem.

Even the stock cam necesitates a converter with the AOD, Capri.

stng87 · 03-13-2001, 10:48 PM

you'll take him easily. Biggest reasons...
1.gears.
2.full length headers

everyone will tell you that you will die cause of the aod but I have one with a shift kit and love it and if it is in good working order then its no prob.

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03-13-2001, 11:28 AM	#1
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	Two combos, which one's faster? A friend and I are deciding on our combos we wanna run this summer, so I'll give 'em to you and you tell me which car's gonna be faster. Both cars will be running 75mm MAF and 24 lb/hr injectors. These are just the basic speed parts that will make the differences. Car ONE: My '87 Notchback. I'll be using Windsor Jr. (1.94, 58cc) heads, Cobra intake, 65mm TB, BBK full lengths w/ off-road H-pipe, and an XE266HR cam. I have 3.73's already (trans is AOD w/ shift kit). Car TWO: His '89 GT will be equipped with Windsor (2.02) heads shaved to 58cc's, an E303 cam, 65mm TB, unequal length shorties w/o cats, and an Edelbrock Performer intake. Gears are stock (trans is T5). FYI cam specs: XE266 has 0.544/0.555 lift, 266/274 adv, 216/224 @ 0.050. E303 has 0.498/0.498 lift, 282/282 adv, 220/220 @ 0.050. Lemme know what you think! THANKS! ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch

03-13-2001, 12:13 PM	#2
Forcedpower Registered Member Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Charlottesville, Va, USA Posts: 328	I think car two will be slower b/c he has 2.02's So less tq. Then on top of that he doesn't have any gear. I could be wrong though. ------------------ '93 LX 425rwhp/410rwtq

03-13-2001, 01:02 PM	#3
StreetStang37 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: San Jose, California USA Posts: 275	Thats some fat valve lift you got there. Im not sure what would be faster. If you had a stall converter, then I'd pick car 1. Probably car 1 though even with out the converter. ------------------ 1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

03-13-2001, 03:23 PM	#4
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	These are going to be very close. I give whoever gets the better tune the edge. Also you have gears and he doesnt. Not to mention the longtubes and lighter car. I go with the notch. Why not use a 70mm TB. All higher HP engines use 70 or 75's. I just made 400fwhp with a 70. Also I question the cobra intake. They say its only good to 400hp and I just put that down with a mild engine combo, so I bet it would be restricting. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, 2 1/4" exhaust, and 4.10's. 332RWHP@5500 351RWTQ@3750 Runs on 87 Octane!

03-13-2001, 06:46 PM	#5
blue00gt Mustang Addict Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 1,294	Given the powerband of the Performer intake and the cam that car 2 will have, I agree that 2.02's are probably too big of a valve - seems like a mismatched combo that probably wouldn't make impressive power on low or top end. Should either go with 1.94's or a more agressive cam and intake...

03-13-2001, 07:10 PM	#6
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I think it depends on traction and launch. Sky is running some TFS heads, which will flow some serious numbers with the E cam and the performer. I think car #1 has too much cam, and without a converter the cam will hurt low end as well. I think car #2 has crappy gearing. I'm saying car #2 will be quicker, although neither will be a rocket out of the hole.

03-13-2001, 07:25 PM	#7
lx mike Undescribable Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Ft Myers Fla Posts: 1,539	car #1 has better combo even with the a.o.d it will be faster and more fun to drive. car #2 has good heads and cam but no gear so untill r.p.m's get up it will be a bit of a dog off the line even with the stick tranny. what tires on each car? also what converter in the aod?? by stock gears do you mean 3.08's? ------------------ 93-LX: 5 Speed, Flow's with H-Pipe, 3.73's Sub's and K&N.

03-13-2001, 07:37 PM	#8
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	the 2 cars will be close. car 1 has the right setup all around. cam is fine for those heads, the lift will help them breath yet the dur. and lsa maintain low rpm power. the only down side is the aod tranny. car 2 has great heads and an intake that will allow them to work, however, 202 valves on stock bore motor dont really help. having them milled brings the comp. back up which is good. but its not likely the motor will be reved to 6500 where those heads will want to work with that motor. plus no gears so its not likely to work well. but the stick trans will help a little. so its more likely that car 1 will be quicker, but if given the room car 2 will run car 1 down. power bands are different but not neccesarily power.

03-13-2001, 07:40 PM	#9
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	Okay for the sake of this discussion, let's say both cars have BFG Comp T/A's and Car ONE has a 2400 stall. Car Two has 3.08 gears, correct. The XE266 isn't supposed to necessitate a higher stall converter, BTW. Xtreme Energy cams are Comp Cams' latest technology that are supposedly better with engine vacuum and have an aggressive profile. ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch

03-13-2001, 07:49 PM	#10
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Whats with 2.02" valves not helping? My car is stock bore and I seemed to make a lot of power with them. Also I don't know about these big cams, I see a lot of guys with them and stroker on Corral not making anymore power than me. Whats the powerband on your cam capri? It maybe too high. I'm not so high on all this big cam high revving stuff anymore seeing my dyno results. I have flat torque all across the board peaking at 5500 making plenty of power. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, 2 1/4" exhaust, and 4.10's. 332RWHP@5500 351RWTQ@3750 Runs on 87 Octane!

03-13-2001, 08:45 PM	#11
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	skyman, there are alot of variable you dont see. for one youre comparing your heads to others. there are big differences such as runner lenght, volume, chamber design, etc. im not saying you cant make power with 202 valves but they generaly lose low end power. as for big cams, these are not big cams. lift is just a small part of a cams job. the ex266 is a good small cam. nothing says that you will definately get more power with one cam as apposed to another.

03-13-2001, 10:09 PM	#12
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	With the addition of a stall converter Car #1 wins, no problem. Even the stock cam necesitates a converter with the AOD, Capri.

03-13-2001, 10:48 PM	#13
stng87 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: southern california Posts: 329	you'll take him easily. Biggest reasons... 1.gears. 2.full length headers everyone will tell you that you will die cause of the aod but I have one with a shift kit and love it and if it is in good working order then its no prob.