flow results of TBs and MAFs

injectedEB · 03-27-2001, 11:40 AM

Does anyone have flow results, or know where I can find them, for throttle bodies and mass air sensors? Specifically I am looking for results from stock, Ford Motorsport, and C&l.

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'74 302 balanced/blue printed w/TFS TW heads, crane energizer 1.6 roller rockers, Edelbrock performer cam, 9:1 compression

Upcoming mods - SEFI (TFS Street EFI intake, 24# injectors, C&L 73mm MAF??, 65mm FMS TB??, TFS stage 1 cam??) and Lentech AOD

?? = still deciding

StreetStang37 · 03-27-2001, 12:24 PM

Yes, I have flow numbers for you from a Dyno book. Unfortunetly I don't have them with me for I am at school

I'll post them later today for you though unless someone posts first. It has numbers from like 6 MAF and 5 or so TB's. I do remember though that a throttle body (65mm) made 2-3 hp at the wheels on a stock mustang and a MAF (73mm C&L, not sure) made like 5-6 hp at the wheels on a stock Mustang. Not sure on the numbers but I will post what they flow (CFM) when I get home. Alrighty?!

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1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

StreetStang37 · 03-28-2001, 12:27 AM

Okay. here are the numbers:
Meter----Size----FlowRate@28in
Stock----58mm----606cfm
Cobra----70mm----815cfm
ProM----Bullet---964cfm
C&L------73mm----1171cfm
C&L------80mm----1415cfm
Ford-----80mm----1017cfm
ProM-----83mm----1598cfm
Like those?!
The 73mm C&L made 8hp and 6tq @ the wheels on a stock engine! It has other numbers but those are for heavily modded cars, but the 73mm C&L held off pretty good still compared to the others.

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1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

injectedEB · 03-28-2001, 12:53 AM

Thanks!

StreetStang37 · 03-28-2001, 01:41 AM

Remember these are peak hp and tq, not average. On the more modified engine, the 77mm ProM (I didn't list it, but it flows 1560cfm) made 260.5 Avg. HP and 334.7 Avg. TQ vs. 249.1 Avg. HP and 318.2 TQ, remember these are average, not peak. The peak for the 73mm was 356 hp and 375 tq vs. 362 hp and 385 tq, all the numbers being at the wheels. The 77mm was the obvious better one, also the more expensive. It depends how much more flow you really need. The 73mm made basically the same power as the 58mm and the Cobra (70mm) through 4200 rpm but then the extra size helped out on the top end with an Avg. of 13 hp through 4400-6000 rmp vs. the 58mm and 8 Avg. hp through 4400-6000 rpm vs. the Cobra 70mm. Hope that helped!!

------------------
1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

StreetStang37 · 03-28-2001, 01:55 AM

Wait! There's More!!
Okay, Part III:
I doubt many people make the power listed above. Just real quick here. Back to the Stock 5.0. The 73mm made an average of 4.6 Avg. hp from 3000-5500 and 8 hp peak and 5.5 Avg. tq from 3000-5000 and 5 tq peak. Not bad for stock, heh?

Do you still want throttle bodies, I can give you throttle body numbers! Hell, I'll jus post 'em, I hope this info helps others too!!

------------------
1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

StreetStang37 · 03-28-2001, 02:16 AM

Part IV:
Throttle Bodies
Size----Make-----CFM@28in
60mm---Ford-------526cfm
65mm---Accufab----616cfm
70mm---BBK--------726cfm
75mm---Accufab----845cfm
90mm---Accufab----1190cfm

On a stock motor, the 65mm made 2hp and 1tq more at the wheels than stock with the average being 1hp and 2tq more. Not so great huh? Out of those 5, the 65mm is better for a modified car, making as much as 5hp more and 6tq more than the 70mm with a car making a bit more than 330 hp at the wheels. The stock 60mm made more low end power than the 70mm but made less top end, so they are a wash. The stock TB ain't so bad! That's it!! Sorry guys, show's over.

------------------
1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

juiceman · 03-28-2001, 08:41 PM

i hope people read this and understand it. from the info just given it is said that the stock or slightly bigger t.b and mass air were better. it seems that things have gotten so compicated today and people get sucked in to the media and promotional hype.
back in 90 when the mass air was new we didnt have all this stuff nor did we need it. to get our cars into the 12's we simply changed cam, cut and ported the intakes, added a 65mm t.b. and we were done. now, everyones putting 36 injectors, 80mm mass air, 75mm t.b's intakes heads etc. and the speeds havent changed. i remember when i said wow, if i had a set of heads i would fly. now, heads are too common but the e.t. is old. remember, these cars did low 14's out of the show room, so i ask, why did you just spend 1000$ on that intake setup to go just as fast?

StreetStang37 · 03-29-2001, 03:34 AM

I hope people read this, it quite took some time!!

Skankin · 03-29-2001, 11:32 AM

This really show's how out of hand the MAF size is getting. The throttle bodies just don't flow as much (restricted by the blade in the middle?).

injectedEB · 03-29-2001, 12:03 PM

the only reason I see for going to a very large MAF is for forced induction. Then I could see needing a large MAF to pull the air through, since most force air through the TB it is not as much of problem as it will flow more CFM when forced through rather than pulled through.

03-27-2001, 11:40 AM	#1
injectedEB Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Broomfield, CO Posts: 18	flow results of TBs and MAFs Does anyone have flow results, or know where I can find them, for throttle bodies and mass air sensors? Specifically I am looking for results from stock, Ford Motorsport, and C&l. ------------------ '74 302 balanced/blue printed w/TFS TW heads, crane energizer 1.6 roller rockers, Edelbrock performer cam, 9:1 compression Upcoming mods - SEFI (TFS Street EFI intake, 24# injectors, C&L 73mm MAF??, 65mm FMS TB??, TFS stage 1 cam??) and Lentech AOD ?? = still deciding

03-27-2001, 12:24 PM	#2
StreetStang37 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: San Jose, California USA Posts: 275	Yes, I have flow numbers for you from a Dyno book. Unfortunetly I don't have them with me for I am at school I'll post them later today for you though unless someone posts first. It has numbers from like 6 MAF and 5 or so TB's. I do remember though that a throttle body (65mm) made 2-3 hp at the wheels on a stock mustang and a MAF (73mm C&L, not sure) made like 5-6 hp at the wheels on a stock Mustang. Not sure on the numbers but I will post what they flow (CFM) when I get home. Alrighty?! ------------------ 1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

03-28-2001, 12:27 AM	#3
StreetStang37 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: San Jose, California USA Posts: 275	Okay. here are the numbers: Meter----Size----FlowRate@28in Stock----58mm----606cfm Cobra----70mm----815cfm ProM----Bullet---964cfm C&L------73mm----1171cfm C&L------80mm----1415cfm Ford-----80mm----1017cfm ProM-----83mm----1598cfm Like those?! The 73mm C&L made 8hp and 6tq @ the wheels on a stock engine! It has other numbers but those are for heavily modded cars, but the 73mm C&L held off pretty good still compared to the others. ------------------ 1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

03-28-2001, 12:53 AM	#4
injectedEB Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Broomfield, CO Posts: 18	Thanks!

03-28-2001, 01:41 AM	#5
StreetStang37 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: San Jose, California USA Posts: 275	Remember these are peak hp and tq, not average. On the more modified engine, the 77mm ProM (I didn't list it, but it flows 1560cfm) made 260.5 Avg. HP and 334.7 Avg. TQ vs. 249.1 Avg. HP and 318.2 TQ, remember these are average, not peak. The peak for the 73mm was 356 hp and 375 tq vs. 362 hp and 385 tq, all the numbers being at the wheels. The 77mm was the obvious better one, also the more expensive. It depends how much more flow you really need. The 73mm made basically the same power as the 58mm and the Cobra (70mm) through 4200 rpm but then the extra size helped out on the top end with an Avg. of 13 hp through 4400-6000 rmp vs. the 58mm and 8 Avg. hp through 4400-6000 rpm vs. the Cobra 70mm. Hope that helped!! ------------------ 1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

03-28-2001, 01:55 AM	#6
StreetStang37 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: San Jose, California USA Posts: 275	Wait! There's More!! Okay, Part III: I doubt many people make the power listed above. Just real quick here. Back to the Stock 5.0. The 73mm made an average of 4.6 Avg. hp from 3000-5500 and 8 hp peak and 5.5 Avg. tq from 3000-5000 and 5 tq peak. Not bad for stock, heh? Do you still want throttle bodies, I can give you throttle body numbers! Hell, I'll jus post 'em, I hope this info helps others too!! ------------------ 1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

03-28-2001, 02:16 AM	#7
StreetStang37 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: San Jose, California USA Posts: 275	Part IV: Throttle Bodies Size----Make-----CFM@28in 60mm---Ford-------526cfm 65mm---Accufab----616cfm 70mm---BBK--------726cfm 75mm---Accufab----845cfm 90mm---Accufab----1190cfm On a stock motor, the 65mm made 2hp and 1tq more at the wheels than stock with the average being 1hp and 2tq more. Not so great huh? Out of those 5, the 65mm is better for a modified car, making as much as 5hp more and 6tq more than the 70mm with a car making a bit more than 330 hp at the wheels. The stock 60mm made more low end power than the 70mm but made less top end, so they are a wash. The stock TB ain't so bad! That's it!! Sorry guys, show's over. ------------------ 1993 Mustang GT - March Ram Air & Pullies, K&N, C&L 73mm MAF, Super Competition Hooker Headers, 2 1/2 in. mandrel bent cat back, High Flow H-Pipe, Pro 5.0 Shifter, 16* Timing Advance

03-28-2001, 08:41 PM	#8
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	i hope people read this and understand it. from the info just given it is said that the stock or slightly bigger t.b and mass air were better. it seems that things have gotten so compicated today and people get sucked in to the media and promotional hype. back in 90 when the mass air was new we didnt have all this stuff nor did we need it. to get our cars into the 12's we simply changed cam, cut and ported the intakes, added a 65mm t.b. and we were done. now, everyones putting 36 injectors, 80mm mass air, 75mm t.b's intakes heads etc. and the speeds havent changed. i remember when i said wow, if i had a set of heads i would fly. now, heads are too common but the e.t. is old. remember, these cars did low 14's out of the show room, so i ask, why did you just spend 1000$ on that intake setup to go just as fast?

03-29-2001, 03:34 AM	#9
StreetStang37 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: San Jose, California USA Posts: 275	I hope people read this, it quite took some time!!

03-29-2001, 11:32 AM	#10
Skankin Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,349	This really show's how out of hand the MAF size is getting. The throttle bodies just don't flow as much (restricted by the blade in the middle?).

03-29-2001, 12:03 PM	#11
injectedEB Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Broomfield, CO Posts: 18	the only reason I see for going to a very large MAF is for forced induction. Then I could see needing a large MAF to pull the air through, since most force air through the TB it is not as much of problem as it will flow more CFM when forced through rather than pulled through.