Should I sell my stang and get a notchback???

Dark_5.0 · 08-11-2001, 12:53 PM

As some of you already know my car is slow as hell I have ran a best of 15.2 @90mph.
and that is after some mods and "NO" it is not my driving.

When I bought my car i did not know what I was doing I thought that the vert would be lighter than the hard top boy was I wrong.

My mustang is not street drivin hardly at all
it is mainly just to take to the track and have fun with just recently I thought that I was going to dip down into the 14's when I went from 2.73's to 3.73's but guess what now I run a 15.4 @90 I am actually 2 tenths slower than I was before.

I have learned alot about stangs since I have joined this site and now knowing what I know now if I was buying a stang today I would buy a 89 or up notchback so that I would have a light weight car with mass air.

I am fixing to come into about $1,000.00 should I spend the grand on the vert to make it faster or should I sell the vert add the grand to it and buy a notch.

If I spent 1000 bucks on my verts motor, I am guessing that about half of that would have to go towards a mass air conversion kit
would I be able to outrun a stock Notchback.
and also other than a mass air conversion kit what mod would you reccomend.

Thanks in advance,

------------------
88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit 3.73 FMS gears cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires. Edelbrock 1 1/2 inch drop springs.

Stang Runner · 08-11-2001, 01:23 PM

What size are your headers? If they are 1 5/8 your are losing power down low you need to fid out what the car waight is. Why are you running a 160 tep in it it might not be that good for your car I am not that sure about that. That is something I have heard. Hey dont feel to bad about the new gears and the loss of et I went from 2.73 to 3.55 and lost .5 and 4MPH I know It will do better with a bit more of time I droped about 1.6 sec since the frist time. It was my frist 5 speed.

------------------
14.62@96.9 Engine: Steal Mounts, Under drive pulleys, K&N, Home ported Lower Intake, No power steering, No A/C
Drive Train: 3.55, World Class T-5, Lakewood Bell housing, Adjustable Clutch Cable, AL Driveshaft
Suspension: MAC Control Arms, Maximum Motorsports Front Grip Package, H&R Sport Springs, Bilstein Shocks
Exhaust: 1 5/8 UN-Equal Length Mac Headers, X-pipe W\cats, Edelbrock cat\back
Cooling: 3 Core Radiator

[This message has been edited by Stang Runner (edited 08-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Stang Runner (edited 08-11-2001).]

Five0 · 08-11-2001, 04:01 PM

Hey 5.0 HO:
No I would not sell it unless you want to get the notch because it is what you like or you are just going to go hardcore race which it does not sound like you are.

I would not get a mass air right now either, the mass air won’t do anything for your performance and if you don't change your cam or injectors you should be able to get by without it for now.

I would start with letting it breath a little better by adding heads and or an intake. The most important thing is to match up your parts right or you might not see a big gain.
Find your self a good set of used aluminum heads or go with some gt-40 heads, these work good especially with a heavy SD car.
Next get your self an intake and a 65mm throttle body.
The TFS street heat intake works good but you can probably find a used cobra intake for less that will work just as good for your combo.
Then I would start thinking about the mass air conversion, injectors, and a cam.

You should be able to get your self a good set of heads installed for under $1000 and that will wake up your Mustang.

Hope this helps.

------------------
James Cox
nochevy@hotmail.com
1991 Mustang LX
12.565 @109.38mph 1.764 60ft

Dark_5.0 · 08-11-2001, 06:17 PM

I was thinking about buying an Edelbrock performer intake upper and lower cause they claim that it will add 37 crank HP without sacrificing torque.

And an offroad H-pipe

"Stang Runner" I have BBK 1 5/8 equal length headers I have also heard that they will slow you down but it was not easy installing these bad boys and they are staying on there I will just have to deal with the power loss

Plus they look great

[This message has been edited by 5.0 HO (edited 08-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by 5.0 HO (edited 08-11-2001).]

Five0 · 08-11-2001, 07:16 PM

I would not believe all that 37 hp gain, maybe if you already have heads and cam and are changing from the stock intake but not just bolting it on.
I would think you would pick up about 10 to 15 hp but the heads would be the first on the list to change and would make the biggest difference.
If you want that heavy vert to move I would definitely be looking for some heads.
They have a set of gt40-x heads on the corral for $650 and you can find deals like that and better all the time.

------------------
James Cox
nochevy@hotmail.com
1991 Mustang LX
12.565 @109.38mph 1.764 60ft

Dark_5.0 · 08-11-2001, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Five0:
I would not believe all that 37 hp gain, maybe if you already have heads and cam and are changing from the stock intake but not just bolting it on.
I would think you would pick up about 10 to 15 hp but the heads would be the first on the list to change and would make the biggest difference.
If you want that heavy vert to move I would definitely be looking for some heads.
They have a set of gt40-x heads on the corral for $650 and you can find deals like that and better all the time.

Man!! That is some damn good info I figured that thy would be way more than that.

One question though whats the best head out of the.

GT-40
GT-40-p
GT-40-x

To use on a speed density setup??

Thanks for your input I was damn near ready to put the intake on my credit card

------------------
88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit 3.73 FMS gears cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires. Edelbrock 1 1/2 inch drop springs.

Stang Runner · 08-12-2001, 07:57 AM

Hey cheak out this page it might help you out http://reality.sgi.com/staheri_corp/mycar/bop.html

Five0 · 08-12-2001, 09:12 AM

I am not positive but I think the gt40-x heads are the better ones but the p heads will work fine also.
I had my butt whipped by a mustang with gt40x heads and a lot of other mod’s but still N/A; he ran a 12.2 to my 12.5 in the 1/4 mi.
I run canfield heads but they are too big for the little 302 and that only goes to show that a properly matched combo will run better than the more expensive combo if not properly matched.

The reason I bought the canfields is because I was making more room for future mod’s and the canfields really shine with more cubic inches or a blower.
After the heads I would look into an intake because after the heads, that will be the biggest bottleneck in your combo.

Thanks for the link stang runner, That is some good info.
------------------
James Cox
nochevy@hotmail.com
1991 Mustang LX
12.565 @109.38mph 1.764 60ft

[This message has been edited by Five0 (edited 08-12-2001).]

Dark_5.0 · 08-12-2001, 03:33 PM

"Stang runner" that info was very surprising The GT-40 intake only adding 7 hp made me sick considering its a 600 dollar mod.

The heads seemed worth while though and so did the under drive pulleys

------------------
88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit 3.73 FMS gears cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires. Edelbrock 1 1/2 inch drop springs.

Five0 · 08-12-2001, 10:29 PM

Hey 5.0 HO: Let us know what you decide and keep us informed on what you do and how you like it.

I know if you do the heads you will be happy and you will feel a big difference and it will make other mod's make a bigger difference too, Anyway Good luck.

Dark_5.0 · 08-12-2001, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Five0:
Hey 5.0 HO: Let us know what you decide and keep us informed on what you do and how you like it.

I know if you do the heads you will be happy and you will feel a big difference and it will make other mod's make a bigger difference too, Anyway Good luck.

I am definitely going with heads first
GT-40x heads.

and an off road h-pipe.

"Five0" I will keep you posted I need something to hang with my brothers and dads camaros so that they will stop calling my car a "5.slow" Lol

------------------
88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit 3.73 FMS gears cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires. Edelbrock 1 1/2 inch drop springs.

Unit 5302 · 08-15-2001, 03:45 PM

The GT-40x heads do flow better than the p heads, but you should be able to get some serious power out of the p's for less money. By serious power, I'm talking in the 320hp N/A area.

Screw the MAF conversion, unless you like losing 20hp.

Get a B cam, GT-40p heads, Explorer intake, and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. A 65mm T/B would help a little, but it shouldn't be all that necessary. The P heads WILL require different headers, so if you can find the X heads cheap, they might be worth it. Regardless, you're gonna need a new fuel pump. Get rid of the 160* thermostat. The combo above should get you 320hp or so. Your car should be running mid 90's for trap as it is, so there may be underlying problems. If everything is tuned up with the new combo, I'd expect traps in the low 100's.

SD most certainly can handle cams, heads, and intakes. Regardless of the brainwashing most people have gotten. You simply have to adjust the fuel pressure, or get a custom chip at worst case scenerio.

I don't know what's up with your car to start with, but my SD car ran 14.19@103.8 on the Gtech, and it was out of tune bad.

------------------
1987 GT 5spd.
D&D Performance "Z" spec T-5
Dynomax 2.5" Super Turbo system
BBK 2 1/2" H-pipe with cats

stevstum · 08-15-2001, 06:26 PM

I would through on a set of heads and an intake. Your car sounds like it is starving for air.

------------------
Steve Stumbaugh

89 LX 5.0 5sp.
Removed air silencer
Motorcraft 8mm wires
Autolite platinum plugs
BBK O/R h-pipe

Dark_5.0 · 08-15-2001, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unit 5302:
The GT-40x heads do flow better than the p heads, but you should be able to get some serious power out of the p's for less money. By serious power, I'm talking in the 320hp N/A area.

Screw the MAF conversion, unless you like losing 20hp.

Get a B cam, GT-40p heads, Explorer intake, and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. A 65mm T/B would help a little, but it shouldn't be all that necessary. The P heads WILL require different headers, so if you can find the X heads cheap, they might be worth it. Regardless, you're gonna need a new fuel pump. Get rid of the 160* thermostat. The combo above should get you 320hp or so. Your car should be running mid 90's for trap as it is, so there may be underlying problems. If everything is tuned up with the new combo, I'd expect traps in the low 100's.

SD most certainly can handle cams, heads, and intakes. Regardless of the brainwashing most people have gotten. You simply have to adjust the fuel pressure, or get a custom chip at worst case scenerio.

I don't know what's up with your car to start with, but my SD car ran 14.19@103.8 on the Gtech, and it was out of tune bad.

Thanks for the info "Unit" Man I have to do something to this damn car.

I am totaly with you on the mass air thing.

I will be bugging you in the following couple of months on tuning with the new parts

A new fuel pump and a fuel pressure regulator are coming soon then the heads then the intake then the cam hopefuly by then I will be running respectable times.

Thanks for the help

Unit 5302 · 08-16-2001, 06:16 PM

I wish I knew where 88workcar went. He was the resident experianced SD guru.

Last I saw he was running Edelbrock 1.94 aluminum heads, Cobra intake, E cam, and low low 12's N/A, should be mid 11's on the juice, with speed density.

I think in the case of SD, it's just even more important that your mods are well matched, and in decent ratio to the stock parts.

Think of it this way. Say you have a 14:1 ratio with SD stock. That's making 225hp. Now you put parts on it to make 300hp. The computer cannot compensate more than about 20%, which is 270hp. So now, with the 300hp parts, you're sitting at 16:1. If you bump your fuel pressure to 50psi from 39psi, now you're back within the computers adjustable specs. It still thinks it's running the stock parts, so it's injecting fuel at a ratio consistant with the air it "thinks" it's getting. In reality, it's getting 35% more air, and about 35% more fuel. That keeps the ratio the same, and the computer within tolerences for compensation.

Obviously, the more matched the parts are in terms of stock parts, the better that will work.

The idea that SD can't take bigger injectors is a frickin joke to me. I've seen a STOCK SD car run fine on 24lb injectors (they were cheaper than the 19lbers a few years back). An MAF car won't even run if you switch to the 24lb injectors without recalibrating the MAF. The SD computer is better able to compensate than the MAF computer. The good thing going for the MAF cars is that they can actually measure air, which makes the computers job way easier.

08-11-2001, 12:53 PM	#1
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	Should I sell my stang and get a notchback??? As some of you already know my car is slow as hell I have ran a best of 15.2 @90mph. and that is after some mods and "NO" it is not my driving. When I bought my car i did not know what I was doing I thought that the vert would be lighter than the hard top boy was I wrong. My mustang is not street drivin hardly at all it is mainly just to take to the track and have fun with just recently I thought that I was going to dip down into the 14's when I went from 2.73's to 3.73's but guess what now I run a 15.4 @90 I am actually 2 tenths slower than I was before. I have learned alot about stangs since I have joined this site and now knowing what I know now if I was buying a stang today I would buy a 89 or up notchback so that I would have a light weight car with mass air. I am fixing to come into about $1,000.00 should I spend the grand on the vert to make it faster or should I sell the vert add the grand to it and buy a notch. If I spent 1000 bucks on my verts motor, I am guessing that about half of that would have to go towards a mass air conversion kit would I be able to outrun a stock Notchback. and also other than a mass air conversion kit what mod would you reccomend. Thanks in advance, ------------------ 88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit 3.73 FMS gears cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires. Edelbrock 1 1/2 inch drop springs.

08-11-2001, 01:23 PM	#2
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	What size are your headers? If they are 1 5/8 your are losing power down low you need to fid out what the car waight is. Why are you running a 160 tep in it it might not be that good for your car I am not that sure about that. That is something I have heard. Hey dont feel to bad about the new gears and the loss of et I went from 2.73 to 3.55 and lost .5 and 4MPH I know It will do better with a bit more of time I droped about 1.6 sec since the frist time. It was my frist 5 speed. ------------------ 14.62@96.9 Engine: Steal Mounts, Under drive pulleys, K&N, Home ported Lower Intake, No power steering, No A/C Drive Train: 3.55, World Class T-5, Lakewood Bell housing, Adjustable Clutch Cable, AL Driveshaft Suspension: MAC Control Arms, Maximum Motorsports Front Grip Package, H&R Sport Springs, Bilstein Shocks Exhaust: 1 5/8 UN-Equal Length Mac Headers, X-pipe W\cats, Edelbrock cat\back Cooling: 3 Core Radiator [This message has been edited by Stang Runner (edited 08-11-2001).] [This message has been edited by Stang Runner (edited 08-11-2001).]

08-11-2001, 04:01 PM	#3
Five0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: middleburg, fl, usa Posts: 1,134	Hey 5.0 HO: No I would not sell it unless you want to get the notch because it is what you like or you are just going to go hardcore race which it does not sound like you are. I would not get a mass air right now either, the mass air won’t do anything for your performance and if you don't change your cam or injectors you should be able to get by without it for now. I would start with letting it breath a little better by adding heads and or an intake. The most important thing is to match up your parts right or you might not see a big gain. Find your self a good set of used aluminum heads or go with some gt-40 heads, these work good especially with a heavy SD car. Next get your self an intake and a 65mm throttle body. The TFS street heat intake works good but you can probably find a used cobra intake for less that will work just as good for your combo. Then I would start thinking about the mass air conversion, injectors, and a cam. You should be able to get your self a good set of heads installed for under $1000 and that will wake up your Mustang. Hope this helps. ------------------ James Cox nochevy@hotmail.com 1991 Mustang LX 12.565 @109.38mph 1.764 60ft

08-11-2001, 06:17 PM	#4
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	I was thinking about buying an Edelbrock performer intake upper and lower cause they claim that it will add 37 crank HP without sacrificing torque. And an offroad H-pipe "Stang Runner" I have BBK 1 5/8 equal length headers I have also heard that they will slow you down but it was not easy installing these bad boys and they are staying on there I will just have to deal with the power loss Plus they look great [This message has been edited by 5.0 HO (edited 08-11-2001).] [This message has been edited by 5.0 HO (edited 08-11-2001).]

08-11-2001, 07:16 PM	#5
Five0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: middleburg, fl, usa Posts: 1,134	I would not believe all that 37 hp gain, maybe if you already have heads and cam and are changing from the stock intake but not just bolting it on. I would think you would pick up about 10 to 15 hp but the heads would be the first on the list to change and would make the biggest difference. If you want that heavy vert to move I would definitely be looking for some heads. They have a set of gt40-x heads on the corral for $650 and you can find deals like that and better all the time. ------------------ James Cox nochevy@hotmail.com 1991 Mustang LX 12.565 @109.38mph 1.764 60ft

08-12-2001, 07:57 AM	#7
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	Hey cheak out this page it might help you out http://reality.sgi.com/staheri_corp/mycar/bop.html

08-12-2001, 09:12 AM	#8
Five0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: middleburg, fl, usa Posts: 1,134	I am not positive but I think the gt40-x heads are the better ones but the p heads will work fine also. I had my butt whipped by a mustang with gt40x heads and a lot of other mod’s but still N/A; he ran a 12.2 to my 12.5 in the 1/4 mi. I run canfield heads but they are too big for the little 302 and that only goes to show that a properly matched combo will run better than the more expensive combo if not properly matched. The reason I bought the canfields is because I was making more room for future mod’s and the canfields really shine with more cubic inches or a blower. After the heads I would look into an intake because after the heads, that will be the biggest bottleneck in your combo. Thanks for the link stang runner, That is some good info. ------------------ James Cox nochevy@hotmail.com 1991 Mustang LX 12.565 @109.38mph 1.764 60ft [This message has been edited by Five0 (edited 08-12-2001).]

08-12-2001, 03:33 PM	#9
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	"Stang runner" that info was very surprising The GT-40 intake only adding 7 hp made me sick considering its a 600 dollar mod. The heads seemed worth while though and so did the under drive pulleys ------------------ 88 mustang gt convertible bored to 306 BBk equal length headers mac cold air fender kit 3.73 FMS gears cowl hood nitto drag radials ford racing clutch flow masters h-pipe 160* thermostat 16 degrees of timing electric fan off 94' t-bird jacobs electronics cap and wires. Edelbrock 1 1/2 inch drop springs.

08-12-2001, 10:29 PM	#10
Five0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: middleburg, fl, usa Posts: 1,134	Hey 5.0 HO: Let us know what you decide and keep us informed on what you do and how you like it. I know if you do the heads you will be happy and you will feel a big difference and it will make other mod's make a bigger difference too, Anyway Good luck.

08-15-2001, 03:45 PM	#12
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	The GT-40x heads do flow better than the p heads, but you should be able to get some serious power out of the p's for less money. By serious power, I'm talking in the 320hp N/A area. Screw the MAF conversion, unless you like losing 20hp. Get a B cam, GT-40p heads, Explorer intake, and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. A 65mm T/B would help a little, but it shouldn't be all that necessary. The P heads WILL require different headers, so if you can find the X heads cheap, they might be worth it. Regardless, you're gonna need a new fuel pump. Get rid of the 160* thermostat. The combo above should get you 320hp or so. Your car should be running mid 90's for trap as it is, so there may be underlying problems. If everything is tuned up with the new combo, I'd expect traps in the low 100's. SD most certainly can handle cams, heads, and intakes. Regardless of the brainwashing most people have gotten. You simply have to adjust the fuel pressure, or get a custom chip at worst case scenerio. I don't know what's up with your car to start with, but my SD car ran 14.19@103.8 on the Gtech, and it was out of tune bad. ------------------ 1987 GT 5spd. D&D Performance "Z" spec T-5 Dynomax 2.5" Super Turbo system BBK 2 1/2" H-pipe with cats

08-15-2001, 06:26 PM	#13
stevstum Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Salem, Or. USA Posts: 233	I would through on a set of heads and an intake. Your car sounds like it is starving for air. ------------------ Steve Stumbaugh 89 LX 5.0 5sp. Removed air silencer Motorcraft 8mm wires Autolite platinum plugs BBK O/R h-pipe

08-16-2001, 06:16 PM	#15
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I wish I knew where 88workcar went. He was the resident experianced SD guru. Last I saw he was running Edelbrock 1.94 aluminum heads, Cobra intake, E cam, and low low 12's N/A, should be mid 11's on the juice, with speed density. I think in the case of SD, it's just even more important that your mods are well matched, and in decent ratio to the stock parts. Think of it this way. Say you have a 14:1 ratio with SD stock. That's making 225hp. Now you put parts on it to make 300hp. The computer cannot compensate more than about 20%, which is 270hp. So now, with the 300hp parts, you're sitting at 16:1. If you bump your fuel pressure to 50psi from 39psi, now you're back within the computers adjustable specs. It still thinks it's running the stock parts, so it's injecting fuel at a ratio consistant with the air it "thinks" it's getting. In reality, it's getting 35% more air, and about 35% more fuel. That keeps the ratio the same, and the computer within tolerences for compensation. Obviously, the more matched the parts are in terms of stock parts, the better that will work. The idea that SD can't take bigger injectors is a frickin joke to me. I've seen a STOCK SD car run fine on 24lb injectors (they were cheaper than the 19lbers a few years back). An MAF car won't even run if you switch to the 24lb injectors without recalibrating the MAF. The SD computer is better able to compensate than the MAF computer. The good thing going for the MAF cars is that they can actually measure air, which makes the computers job way easier.