ignition timing problems

MetalHead · 03-15-2002, 05:18 PM

okay, so I'm trying to fine tune my ignition timing and i'm running into some problems. first, i looked for the marks on the balancer that show the degrees and i found them but they don't tell me much. there is one mark that says TDC (top dead center) below it, and then four more marks to the right of that one that are spaced out evenly. thats all it says, no degrees or anything. so i turn on my car and use my timing light, according to PKRWUD's instructions, and tried to line up the mark on the balancer and the stationary mark on the block. they were so far apart i could barely see the mark on the balancer!

the stationary mark is on the driver's side, and the balancer mark was so far away that it was almost under the car. I turned the distributor as far as i could but the white balancer mark was still 2-3 inches away from the block mark, and not even close to the other four marks on the balancer. I tried to turn the disty as much as i could, but when it got far enough the engine died, and i had to turn it back a little to restart the engine.

I reset the idle mixture to see if that would help and it did, as well as the idle speed, but i still can't even get close to lining up the two marks. not only that, but i won't even be able to turn the disty as much as would be needed to line up the marks because the vacuum port is blocking me from turning it further. i don't know what the degrees are on the balancer and i don't even know what degree my ignition should be at for optimum performance.
Help me!

Jason

Rev · 03-15-2002, 05:35 PM

MetalHead, what has happened is that your damper has slipped. The original Ford units were made with two metal units with a rubber "shock absorber" sandwiched in between. After X amt. of years these things fail. When that rubber sandwich thing fails, the metal pieces will no longer be lined up correctly and you will get incorrect readings due to the slippage. You need a new damper. I just got a new Ford unit from my local Mustang parts place for about $100-110. You can get excellent after market dampers from Summit (Fluid Damper or others) for a little more money. This is my take on that problem.

Rev

PKRWUD · 03-16-2002, 12:50 PM

Humor me here. Which spark plug wire did you attach the timing light to? it should have been the forward most cylinder on the passenger side. Your description sounds like you attached it to #5, which is the forward most cylinder on the drivers side.

Take care,
-Chris

MetalHead · 03-17-2002, 07:35 PM

Actually, I attached the timing light to the 3rd spark plug on the passenger side, because it was the wire that was in front on the distributor. I wasn't aware that attaching it to a different wire made a difference. I will try it on the forward most spark plug on the passenger side and see if the results are any different. But can you tell me what the marks on the balancer equal and what the original timing of my engine should be and what I should set it at?
At the moment I'm pretty much flying blind and setting the timing at what sounds good. thanks alot.

Jason

PKRWUD · 03-18-2002, 05:30 AM

The TDC mark on the balancer only refers to cylinder #1. Therefore, to time it properly, you want to know when #1 is firing. The inductive pick-up on your timing light senses when the voltage has been passed along the wire to the plug, and flashes a strobe light. In other words, each time the timing light flashes, is when the spark plug for the cylinder it is attached to is firing. Since the TDC mark refers to the #1 cylinder, it is that cylinder's spark plug wire that you need to attach the inductive pick-up to. Make sense? Your cylinders are numbered 1-4 and 5-8, front to back, starting on the passenger side. You were reading when the #3 cylinder was firing, and were trying to set it to where the #1 cylinder was supposed to fire. Honest mistake.

The degree marks on the balancer are almost always representitive of 2 degrees each. Most 289's were set at the factory at 6 degrees of timing BTDC, which would be the third line from the TDC mark. I would go ahead and try setting to 8 or even 10 degrees advanced (which would be the 4th and 5th lines, respectively). Don't forget to disconnect and plug the vacuum hose going to the distributor before you check and adjust your timing.

***BONUS***
Now that you understand how the timing light works, you can use it as a tool for locating an ignition miss as well. If the engine develops a miss at idle, just attach the inductive pick-up lead to each spark plug wire while the engine is running, and point the flashes at the palm of your hand. Watch them for each cylinder. You will eventually find one that skips the flash every so often. It should correspond with the miss you detected in the engine. If so, you have now found out which cylinder the problem is in. You just narrowed your diagnostics down by 7/8's. Check the plug for that cylinder, as well as the plug wire, etc.

When you get really good, I'll teach you a really neat trick for disabling the cylinders one at a time, while running, without electricuting yourself. This is also helpful in finding a miss or a weak cylinder (power balance test).

Just "good to know" stuff.

Take care,
-Chris

MetalHead · 03-19-2002, 04:33 PM

Thanks a lot Chris for all the advice you have given me. You above anybody else has helped me out with information that I needed to know or didn't realize I needed to know since I became a member to Mustangworks. I hooked up the timing light to the correct wire and the marks lined up perfectly with the TDC mark. So I had my car set at 0* BTDC. I'll try setting it at 8 or 10 degrees and see how the car runs. Thanks again for all the good advice!

Jason

PKRWUD · 03-21-2002, 07:10 PM

No problem. I enjoy helping people who are willing to learn, and get dirty themselves. The thing I enjoyed most about all of the years of classes I took back in the 80's was the ability to understand what was going on. Just being told to do something may work, but when you understand what it is you are doing, and why you are doing it, it becomes much more fun. It also enabled me to get great jobs!

Take care,
-Chris

PKRWUD · 03-21-2002, 07:28 PM

BTW, there are ALOT of really smart guys on this board. Rev (you gotta love a guy that works with nitrous every day!) was assuming you had checked the timing correctly. His suggestion about the balancer separating was a good one, and is something to watch for. A way to know if it has moved is to make your own mark from the outer ring to the inner ring, and check them every so often to see if they move.

Take care,
-Chris

03-15-2002, 05:35 PM	#2
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	MetalHead, what has happened is that your damper has slipped. The original Ford units were made with two metal units with a rubber "shock absorber" sandwiched in between. After X amt. of years these things fail. When that rubber sandwich thing fails, the metal pieces will no longer be lined up correctly and you will get incorrect readings due to the slippage. You need a new damper. I just got a new Ford unit from my local Mustang parts place for about $100-110. You can get excellent after market dampers from Summit (Fluid Damper or others) for a little more money. This is my take on that problem. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

03-17-2002, 07:35 PM	#4
MetalHead Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 76	Actually, I attached the timing light to the 3rd spark plug on the passenger side, because it was the wire that was in front on the distributor. I wasn't aware that attaching it to a different wire made a difference. I will try it on the forward most spark plug on the passenger side and see if the results are any different. But can you tell me what the marks on the balancer equal and what the original timing of my engine should be and what I should set it at? At the moment I'm pretty much flying blind and setting the timing at what sounds good. thanks alot. Jason __________________ 67 Coupe 289, 2 1/4'' pipes w/ Flowmasters Edelbrock 600 cfm 4bbl carb, Edelbrock Airgap intake Hooker headers, MSD Ignition system Next: new tranny, T5 or Toploader

03-19-2002, 04:33 PM	#6
MetalHead Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 76	Thanks a lot Chris for all the advice you have given me. You above anybody else has helped me out with information that I needed to know or didn't realize I needed to know since I became a member to Mustangworks. I hooked up the timing light to the correct wire and the marks lined up perfectly with the TDC mark. So I had my car set at 0* BTDC. I'll try setting it at 8 or 10 degrees and see how the car runs. Thanks again for all the good advice! Jason __________________ 67 Coupe 289, 2 1/4'' pipes w/ Flowmasters Edelbrock 600 cfm 4bbl carb, Edelbrock Airgap intake Hooker headers, MSD Ignition system Next: new tranny, T5 or Toploader

03-21-2002, 07:10 PM	#7
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	No problem. I enjoy helping people who are willing to learn, and get dirty themselves. The thing I enjoyed most about all of the years of classes I took back in the 80's was the ability to understand what was going on. Just being told to do something may work, but when you understand what it is you are doing, and why you are doing it, it becomes much more fun. It also enabled me to get great jobs! Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

03-21-2002, 07:28 PM	#8
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	BTW, there are ALOT of really smart guys on this board. Rev (you gotta love a guy that works with nitrous every day!) was assuming you had checked the timing correctly. His suggestion about the balancer separating was a good one, and is something to watch for. A way to know if it has moved is to make your own mark from the outer ring to the inner ring, and check them every so often to see if they move. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

03-15-2002, 05:18 PM	#1
MetalHead Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 76	ignition timing problems okay, so I'm trying to fine tune my ignition timing and i'm running into some problems. first, i looked for the marks on the balancer that show the degrees and i found them but they don't tell me much. there is one mark that says TDC (top dead center) below it, and then four more marks to the right of that one that are spaced out evenly. thats all it says, no degrees or anything. so i turn on my car and use my timing light, according to PKRWUD's instructions, and tried to line up the mark on the balancer and the stationary mark on the block. they were so far apart i could barely see the mark on the balancer! the stationary mark is on the driver's side, and the balancer mark was so far away that it was almost under the car. I turned the distributor as far as i could but the white balancer mark was still 2-3 inches away from the block mark, and not even close to the other four marks on the balancer. I tried to turn the disty as much as i could, but when it got far enough the engine died, and i had to turn it back a little to restart the engine. I reset the idle mixture to see if that would help and it did, as well as the idle speed, but i still can't even get close to lining up the two marks. not only that, but i won't even be able to turn the disty as much as would be needed to line up the marks because the vacuum port is blocking me from turning it further. i don't know what the degrees are on the balancer and i don't even know what degree my ignition should be at for optimum performance. Help me! Jason __________________ 67 Coupe 289, 2 1/4'' pipes w/ Flowmasters Edelbrock 600 cfm 4bbl carb, Edelbrock Airgap intake Hooker headers, MSD Ignition system Next: new tranny, T5 or Toploader

03-16-2002, 12:50 PM	#3
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Humor me here. Which spark plug wire did you attach the timing light to? it should have been the forward most cylinder on the passenger side. Your description sounds like you attached it to #5, which is the forward most cylinder on the drivers side. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

03-18-2002, 05:30 AM	#5
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	The TDC mark on the balancer only refers to cylinder #1. Therefore, to time it properly, you want to know when #1 is firing. The inductive pick-up on your timing light senses when the voltage has been passed along the wire to the plug, and flashes a strobe light. In other words, each time the timing light flashes, is when the spark plug for the cylinder it is attached to is firing. Since the TDC mark refers to the #1 cylinder, it is that cylinder's spark plug wire that you need to attach the inductive pick-up to. Make sense? Your cylinders are numbered 1-4 and 5-8, front to back, starting on the passenger side. You were reading when the #3 cylinder was firing, and were trying to set it to where the #1 cylinder was supposed to fire. Honest mistake. The degree marks on the balancer are almost always representitive of 2 degrees each. Most 289's were set at the factory at 6 degrees of timing BTDC, which would be the third line from the TDC mark. I would go ahead and try setting to 8 or even 10 degrees advanced (which would be the 4th and 5th lines, respectively). Don't forget to disconnect and plug the vacuum hose going to the distributor before you check and adjust your timing. *BONUS* Now that you understand how the timing light works, you can use it as a tool for locating an ignition miss as well. If the engine develops a miss at idle, just attach the inductive pick-up lead to each spark plug wire while the engine is running, and point the flashes at the palm of your hand. Watch them for each cylinder. You will eventually find one that skips the flash every so often. It should correspond with the miss you detected in the engine. If so, you have now found out which cylinder the problem is in. You just narrowed your diagnostics down by 7/8's. Check the plug for that cylinder, as well as the plug wire, etc. When you get really good, I'll teach you a really neat trick for disabling the cylinders one at a time, while running, without electricuting yourself. This is also helpful in finding a miss or a weak cylinder (power balance test). Just "good to know" stuff. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Advance ignition timing on 1994 5.0??	JChalfan	Windsor Power	6	05-05-2009 12:35 AM
timing problems	chiaronate	Windsor Power	6	07-02-2003 05:17 PM
Gt-40 motor timing problems? and smoke	drtbiker	Windsor Power	0	09-22-2002 10:01 PM
Ignition Problems with '87 5.0. HELP!!!	Holly	Windsor Power	12	03-17-2002 05:53 PM
AAAARGH! Steeda timing adjuster causing computer problems!!!	bark3rd	Modular Madness	1	06-04-2001 08:15 PM