Need Help. Wont start

Greg5ta · 08-30-2005, 03:52 PM

I have a rebuuilt 351C. It was installed and it ran for about 30 min. After that time it stopped as if you turned the key off. It turned over once as we attempted to restart. After that one try the battery was discharged. We have replaced the battery, all the battery cables, and the coil. After that we got it to crank, unfortunely my son and I flooded the engine and it backfired. When it backfired both valve covers were blown off. We replaced the valve covers and the distribitour cap and tried again. NO Luck. The engine seemed to get harder to crank with each attempt during tha session Pulled the spark plugs and the were wet with the smell of gas. The carb is a edelbrock 1406.

Any suggestion appreciated

Greg Bain

Gearhead999 · 08-30-2005, 04:12 PM

Sounds like the needle is sticking in the carb. Letting fuel pour into the engine, flooding it.

Try tapping, lightly, on the top of the carb in two places. Near the fuel inlet line and on the opposite side where it looks like a fuel line might go. Pull all the plugs and turn the engine over. Pull the coil wire too. Don't need one of the loose spark plug wires firing off the fuel mixture that is coming out of the spark plug holes. Dry out the plugs, or better yet replace them.

I'd also look at the rotor and make sure it is turning with the engine. Then pull the distributor and look at the gear and pin and see if it has sheared.

You surely got A BUNCH of gas in the crankcase in order for it to blow the valve covers off. Is the fuel pump good, it can and will pump fuel into the crankcase when the diaphram goes bad.

I think you'll find a problem in or with the distributor.

PKRWUD · 08-30-2005, 04:47 PM

Blew the valve covers off?!?!? In all my years, that's something I've never seen happen. How could that much fuel get by the rings? What ignited it? If there was enough pressure to blow the valve covers off, it must have blown out your seals, too. Expect to leak a lot of oil once you get it running.

The first thing I would do is drain the oil, and inspect it for gasoline. Then I'd check the fuel pump. If the diaphram in the pump failed, it would not only add fuel to the crankcase, but make it difficult to start. But you said the plugs were wet. Damn. This one is odd.

Greg5ta · 08-30-2005, 05:45 PM

Fuel pump is new. Checked the oil, no gas in oil. Changed oil after it had run the first time. No visible damage to the crackcase. I will try tapping on the carb. I have the old carb and I am thinking about swaping it back on. According to my son the fireball was the entire width of the car. I think the mainifold was full of gas and when it backired through the carb it ignited it.

PKRWUD · 08-30-2005, 05:51 PM

Yeah, but in order to blow the valve covers off, the gas would have had to be in the crankcase. The only way for that to happen would be past a bad pump diaphram, or by leaking past the rings. If there was that much fuel in the cylinders, the engine would have hydrolocked. That's why this is so unusual.

Phillyfanfrombirth · 08-30-2005, 06:50 PM

If the cylinder is not full of gas, which will make it incredibly difficult to crank... the backfire could be explained by having the ignition too far advanced or having the distributor one tooth off... or dare I say, a bent intake valve.

Greg5ta · 08-30-2005, 07:12 PM

too far advanced most likely. idiot playing with distrib. I definlty hope not a bent valve.
There were no mechnical warning noises when it stopped the first time. I just took the spark plugs out and blew out the cylinders.
now for the test

greg

PKRWUD · 08-30-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phillyfanfrombirth

If the cylinder is not full of gas, which will make it incredibly difficult to crank... the backfire could be explained by having the ignition too far advanced or having the distributor one tooth off... or dare I say, a bent intake valve.

Any of those would definitely explain a backfire in the intake, but none of them would have blown the valve covers off. If he blew the valve covers off, something else is going on here, and it's critical that it be figured out. I just can't think of what else could possibly do it.

Greg5ta · 08-31-2005, 01:02 PM

More info in the continuing saga of "who knows why". I checked the distrib last night and
4 teeth were striped off. I have no clue when it happened. I didnt check the distrib after the major backfire. I can turn the oil pump by hand and with a drill I have 50 lbs of pressure. Visual inspection of the camshaft didnt show damage. A new distrib will be installed today.

Greg

Phillyfanfrombirth · 08-31-2005, 05:21 PM

Gotta drop the oil pan!!!!

Those teeth went somewhere!

Hate to say it, but you should also pull the cam to inspect the distributor gear...

Greg5ta · 09-14-2005, 11:11 AM

It lives! I changed the distributor and cleaned the carb and it starts. Thanks for the help

Gearhead999 · 09-14-2005, 04:40 PM

Don't forget the dist. teeth that are MIA. They will find their way to the bottom of the oil pan.

I'd drop the pan and clean them out.
OR.....if the pan is impossible to remove without a lot of trouble. Get a "VERY" strong magnet and attach it to the bottom of the pan, away from the oil pump pick up. It should hold the pieces from moving around.

08-30-2005, 03:52 PM	#1
Greg5ta Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6	Need Help. Wont start I have a rebuuilt 351C. It was installed and it ran for about 30 min. After that time it stopped as if you turned the key off. It turned over once as we attempted to restart. After that one try the battery was discharged. We have replaced the battery, all the battery cables, and the coil. After that we got it to crank, unfortunely my son and I flooded the engine and it backfired. When it backfired both valve covers were blown off. We replaced the valve covers and the distribitour cap and tried again. NO Luck. The engine seemed to get harder to crank with each attempt during tha session Pulled the spark plugs and the were wet with the smell of gas. The carb is a edelbrock 1406. Any suggestion appreciated Greg Bain

08-30-2005, 04:12 PM	#2
Gearhead999 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Oviedo, FL Posts: 992	Re: Need Help. Wont start Sounds like the needle is sticking in the carb. Letting fuel pour into the engine, flooding it. Try tapping, lightly, on the top of the carb in two places. Near the fuel inlet line and on the opposite side where it looks like a fuel line might go. Pull all the plugs and turn the engine over. Pull the coil wire too. Don't need one of the loose spark plug wires firing off the fuel mixture that is coming out of the spark plug holes. Dry out the plugs, or better yet replace them. I'd also look at the rotor and make sure it is turning with the engine. Then pull the distributor and look at the gear and pin and see if it has sheared. You surely got A BUNCH of gas in the crankcase in order for it to blow the valve covers off. Is the fuel pump good, it can and will pump fuel into the crankcase when the diaphram goes bad. I think you'll find a problem in or with the distributor. __________________ "Support our Troops" Dave 1968 Cougar 2004 Thunderbird 2007 F150 Harley-Davidson, SuperCrew 1986 LTD 1997 Ranger 1992 Honda Civic

08-30-2005, 04:47 PM	#3
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Re: Need Help. Wont start Blew the valve covers off?!?!? In all my years, that's something I've never seen happen. How could that much fuel get by the rings? What ignited it? If there was enough pressure to blow the valve covers off, it must have blown out your seals, too. Expect to leak a lot of oil once you get it running. The first thing I would do is drain the oil, and inspect it for gasoline. Then I'd check the fuel pump. If the diaphram in the pump failed, it would not only add fuel to the crankcase, but make it difficult to start. But you said the plugs were wet. Damn. This one is odd. __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

08-30-2005, 05:45 PM	#4
Greg5ta Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6	Re: Need Help. Wont start Fuel pump is new. Checked the oil, no gas in oil. Changed oil after it had run the first time. No visible damage to the crackcase. I will try tapping on the carb. I have the old carb and I am thinking about swaping it back on. According to my son the fireball was the entire width of the car. I think the mainifold was full of gas and when it backired through the carb it ignited it.

08-30-2005, 05:51 PM	#5
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Re: Need Help. Wont start Yeah, but in order to blow the valve covers off, the gas would have had to be in the crankcase. The only way for that to happen would be past a bad pump diaphram, or by leaking past the rings. If there was that much fuel in the cylinders, the engine would have hydrolocked. That's why this is so unusual. __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

08-30-2005, 06:50 PM	#6
Phillyfanfrombirth Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Central PA Posts: 358	Re: Need Help. Wont start If the cylinder is not full of gas, which will make it incredibly difficult to crank... the backfire could be explained by having the ignition too far advanced or having the distributor one tooth off... or dare I say, a bent intake valve.

08-30-2005, 07:12 PM	#7
Greg5ta Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6	Re: Need Help. Wont start too far advanced most likely. idiot playing with distrib. I definlty hope not a bent valve. There were no mechnical warning noises when it stopped the first time. I just took the spark plugs out and blew out the cylinders. now for the test greg

08-31-2005, 01:02 PM	#9
Greg5ta Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6	Re: Need Help. Wont start More info in the continuing saga of "who knows why". I checked the distrib last night and 4 teeth were striped off. I have no clue when it happened. I didnt check the distrib after the major backfire. I can turn the oil pump by hand and with a drill I have 50 lbs of pressure. Visual inspection of the camshaft didnt show damage. A new distrib will be installed today. Greg

08-31-2005, 05:21 PM	#10
Phillyfanfrombirth Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Central PA Posts: 358	Re: Need Help. Wont start Gotta drop the oil pan!!!! Those teeth went somewhere! Hate to say it, but you should also pull the cam to inspect the distributor gear...

09-14-2005, 11:11 AM	#11
Greg5ta Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6	Re: Need Help. Wont start It lives! I changed the distributor and cleaned the carb and it starts. Thanks for the help

09-14-2005, 04:40 PM	#12
Gearhead999 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Oviedo, FL Posts: 992	Re: Need Help. Wont start Don't forget the dist. teeth that are MIA. They will find their way to the bottom of the oil pan. I'd drop the pan and clean them out. OR.....if the pan is impossible to remove without a lot of trouble. Get a "VERY" strong magnet and attach it to the bottom of the pan, away from the oil pump pick up. It should hold the pieces from moving around. __________________ "Support our Troops" Dave 1968 Cougar 2004 Thunderbird 2007 F150 Harley-Davidson, SuperCrew 1986 LTD 1997 Ranger 1992 Honda Civic

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