Newbie w/ some questions.

Falcons Talon · 05-01-2002, 01:17 PM

Hello all. I'm a newbie in this forum, and although I own a '92 GT and do the repairs on her myself, I don't know jack squat on what to do to improve her performance. I have a few problems with her that are giving me a hard time as well, and I hope that you guys can help me out.

My first problem could be deemed mechanical in nature:
My 'stang really tends to heat up in the city. I have a 160 F. thermostat installed and a fairly new 3 row heavy duty radiator. The fan clutch is fine, and the water flow is good. No visible problems with the water pump either. Is there anything that I am missing that can be causing the car to heat up like this? Could it possibly be a stopped up cat? Would a flex fan help? Would cutting out the cats help? In deep South Texas, the inspections are not hard to pass. They never look uner the hood or chassis to see if everything is legal. I was told that if I cut out the cats, I will need to buy a chip for her.

Problem 2 Quick and easy performance hop ups.
What should I add...quick and easy for starters? I want to keep her as a daily driver, so I don't want to lose much gas mileage. I know I have to sacrifice some for performance, but I don't want her to drop to less than 15 mpg. I have some pulleys on her, but that's about it. I'm looking to get a K&N cone filter, but do I have to buy the complete air inlet assembly, or can I just bolt the cone onto the stock air inlet? Would new headers help? If so, whick kind? I've heard things about shorties, but I wouldn't know which to get. What else is a realatively cheap and econmical bolt on improvement?

gtsr515 · 05-01-2002, 02:31 PM

160 thermostats are a no no for 5.0's, they stay open all the time, especially in summer, never allowing the coolant to stay in the radiator long enough to cool, goto a 180.

DRASTiK · 05-01-2002, 02:37 PM

Well I probably can't answer everything, but I'll do what I can.

Your heat problem could be a bad water pump, or a blockage somewhere. It's also possible that moving up to a 180 thermostat will actually keep it cooler because a 160 basically stays open all the time, and therefore doesn't give the water enough time to cool in the radiator. A flex fan would cool it a little better, but it is much more dangerous than a clutch fan and it will rob you of a few more horsepower than a clutch setup.

If you lose the cats, you don't need a chip. Whoever told you that was just plain wrong. I have an off road H-pipe and no cats, just like many members here and we don't need chips.

The K&N issue can go either way. If you're still using the factory air box, then they sell a K&N filter that fits right into it. If you're using a fenderwell induction, then you could still just buy a cone filter.

Cheap performance mods, are a fenderwell air induction system, bumping the timing up to around 14, but make sure there's no detonation. If the air silencer is still in your factory airbox, then remove it for a couple of horses.

There are many different things beyond that which you can do, but we need you to tell us what kind of performance you're shooting for and we can guide you onto the right track from there.

Falcons Talon · 05-01-2002, 03:08 PM

I'll go buy that 180 thermostat after work...I'll also get some water wetter (I saw some earlier posts). While I'm there, I'll get a new radiator cap...what pressure should I get?

What are the pluses/minuses of dropping the cats. I live on the border, and I know of a shop that will charge $20 to cut out the rear cats, and $20 to hollow out the front ones.

What's the difference between fenderwall induction and a factory airbox? I have a box mounted on the fenderwall near the alternator. There's an inlet in the fenderwall, under the filter. Which do I have? If I have an airbox, what and where is the air silencer?

I wanted to pick up the Cone k & n filter, because I heard it offered better performance. Am I wrong in this?

I really appreciate your help guys. I'm not necessarily looking for track times, but I do want to get the most that I can out of my car without destroying the mileage or reliability. It's my daily driver.

Mr 5 0 · 05-01-2002, 03:12 PM

Falcons Talon

All good advice given so far.

Ditch that 160 stat for at least a 180 or a stock 192 and see what happens with the overheating problem.

The factory clutch fan is fine but make certain it's working properly. With the engine off, it should have resistance when you try to turn it. The fan tends to provide cooling at low speed or at idle so it's a very likely suspect.

While removing the cats is advisable for better performance, they're probably not the cause of running hot.

As already stated, you can remove the catalytic converters without the need for a chip.

jerrys84 · 05-01-2002, 04:14 PM

had the same problems with a 160 stat, switched to 180, much better..

as far as performance, remove the air silencer!! the rest depends on the $$'s you wanna spend..

Gear change is a must!!

NotchJohnson · 05-01-2002, 06:12 PM

Definitely pluck that air filter silencer out of there. Its the first thing I did when I picked up my car. A 180 degree thermo would help your heat problem, but stop and go driving in traffic definitely heats up any stang, ive seen that on all 3 of the stangs ive owned. A good exhaust system is probably the most popular mod on these cars, great sound and better performance - John

NotchJohnson · 05-01-2002, 06:14 PM

By the way - Welcome to Mustangworks man!

Falcons Talon · 05-01-2002, 06:22 PM

Can you guys describe to me what the air filter silencer looks like and where it's located? I'm anxious to take y'alls advice. I already got the thermo and I'm gonna start dissecting her...You guys are great!

Falcons Talon · 05-01-2002, 09:46 PM

Allright, I got the air filter silencer out, put in the 180 thermo, flushed the cooling system, dropped in new 80/20 antifreeze mix w/ water wetter. I'll probably cut out the cats this Saturday. I would really like to get a conical K&N filter, but do I need to buy the air inlet arm assembly? Is there an application that fits the oem air inlet arm? I still need to advance the timing a bit, but I think I'll do that at dad's place this weekend.

Ieatcamaros · 05-01-2002, 10:16 PM

A box K&N replacement is actually better than adding a conical filter to the end of the stock hose. The reason is because the air from the fenderwell is colder and denser than the air out of the engine compartment. Make sure there are no cracks or anything in your airbox if you decide to go this route. The box style filter costs about $40 to $50.

As for headers, I would go with equal lenghts. Just about any brand will work. It depends on what you want to spend.

FYI, you can buy an off road h pipe for about $100 plus shipping.

No cats and an aftermarket exhaust will give you excellent sound, if you like the rumbling sound of a V8.

A real boost on any 5.0 is putting in a set of gears. Since you want the best gas mileage you can get, I would reccomend the 3.55s. You can really feel the difference!

Hope this helps you out.

PKRWUD · 05-02-2002, 05:36 AM

I've got a few questions regarding your engine running hot:

1) How are you determining that it's running hot? (Factory gauges are notoriously inaccurate, and the only way to get an honest temp reading is with an aftermarket gauge)

2) Does it ever "boil over"? (this is a sign of a weak radiator cap. a Stant pressure relief cap, with a red lever, rated at 16 psi, would be a good replacement)

3) When you said you "dropped in an 80/20 antifreeze mix", you did mean 80% water/20% coolant, right? (coolant actually retains heat, and a mixture containing more than 20% coolant will actually cause the system to run hotter)

4) Do you have the factory fan shroud installed?

Installing the 180 t-stat will certainly help, but I would have gone with an OEM 192 from Ford.

As far as your cats being clogged, this is easily checked with a vacuum gauge. There are two easy tests you can run to determine if your exhaust is restricted (cats clogged).

First test:
1) Attach vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum source.
2) Observe vacuum at idle.
3) Snap throttle to WOT and release, while watching the gauge.

The vacuum gauge should drop to almost zero when you hit WOT. When the throttle snaps closed immediately after, the vacuum should read 4" to 6" higher than what it did at idle. It should then settle back at the same reading it was at idle before the WOT snap. This whole exchange should go from idle reading to idle reading in 2-3 seconds, tops. If it takes longer for the gauge to return to the same idle reading, your exhaust is restricted. The longer it takes, the worse the restriction.

Second test:
1) Attach vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum source.
2) Warm up engine.
3) Observe vacuum at idle.
4) Leave engine idling for 10 minutes. Do not touch anything on the car during this time. In fact, go inside and fix some coffee.
5) After 10 minutes, observe the vacuum.

If the vacuum is the same or higher, you don't have any resctrictions. If the vacuum gauge has dropped, you do have a restriction. The more it drops, the greater the restriction. If it drops 1" or more, you have a serious restriction. 2" or more and you might as well have the exhaust welded shut. Keep in mind that a rich exhaust will clog up cats in a hurry.

Take care,
-Chris

Falcons Talon · 05-02-2002, 08:44 AM

Ieatcamaros,
I've been considering gears for the longest time. When I get the money, I'll change out to 3.55's. I've heard they are probably the way to go for my application, and since I don't plan to run it at the track, the app should be fine.

The box type filter is definitely less of a headache, since no shops around here stock any type of unversal k&n cones. Good call on the cooler air. That was going to be my next question. When I was taking off the box, the two top bolt were frozen, even after wd40, and I ended up tearing the screw of the rubber grommets. I'll probably bolt it down somewhere and cover the screwholes w/silicone.

I'll be keeping a lookout for offroad h-pipes. I plan on getting the cats cutout tomorrow or Saturday, and I'm looking to pick up a 48.5" belt and bypass the smog pump.

PKRWUD
Yes, I'm going by the factory gauge. The reason I think it's running hot is because it would be below the middle of the gauge on the highway. After a while in town, the gauge would inch up and eventually, the air con would cut out. I should get an aftermarket gauge...maybe today...
It hasn't boiled over, but I replaced the cap anyway. Why wait for it to go out.
The mix is 80 water 20 antifreeze. Have you guys ever seen the instructions on Prestone antifreeze? 70 coolant to 30 water for max protection???
Yes, I've got the shroud on. If I continue with heating problems, I may go to the 192 thermo.
Thanks for the steps on the cat check, but since I'm going to cut them out anyway, I won't be doing that.

drudis · 05-02-2002, 09:16 AM

FYI, I got a K&N filter (fits my 1989) when I converted to a 12" cone in the fender during the S-trim install.
If interested, gimme a shout at home: drudis@dariusrudis.com

Falcons Talon · 05-02-2002, 10:12 AM

Well, I just picked up my k&n flat filter, and I'm going to go and pick up an 84.5 s-belt to bypass the smog pump. There's a shop that will cut out my cats and fabricate an H-pipe for me for $60.00 Seems like a good deal to me. What diameter should he use? I'm assuming that he will run straight pipes from the gutted cats to the mufflers. What should the diameter of the cross pipe be as well.
Damn, these upgrades are going fast. Keep the tips coming guys...like I said, y'all are awesome!!!

Falcons Talon · 05-02-2002, 01:01 PM

Well, even though I have the flat k&n filter, I'll be asking for the 57-2502 later. Baby steps...

NotchJohnson · 05-02-2002, 02:48 PM

Youll want to use 2 1/2 inch pipe

Falcons Talon · 05-02-2002, 02:49 PM

Same size on the crossover pipe?

NotchJohnson · 05-02-2002, 02:53 PM

What do you mean by crossover pipe? The pice of pipe connecting both sides? If so then yes, same size on that piece.

Falcons Talon · 05-02-2002, 02:56 PM

Thank you NJ...yes, it was the pipe i was talking about. I'm not familiar with all the jargon yet...

05-01-2002, 01:17 PM	#1
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Newbie w/ some questions. Hello all. I'm a newbie in this forum, and although I own a '92 GT and do the repairs on her myself, I don't know jack squat on what to do to improve her performance. I have a few problems with her that are giving me a hard time as well, and I hope that you guys can help me out. My first problem could be deemed mechanical in nature: My 'stang really tends to heat up in the city. I have a 160 F. thermostat installed and a fairly new 3 row heavy duty radiator. The fan clutch is fine, and the water flow is good. No visible problems with the water pump either. Is there anything that I am missing that can be causing the car to heat up like this? Could it possibly be a stopped up cat? Would a flex fan help? Would cutting out the cats help? In deep South Texas, the inspections are not hard to pass. They never look uner the hood or chassis to see if everything is legal. I was told that if I cut out the cats, I will need to buy a chip for her. Problem 2 Quick and easy performance hop ups. What should I add...quick and easy for starters? I want to keep her as a daily driver, so I don't want to lose much gas mileage. I know I have to sacrifice some for performance, but I don't want her to drop to less than 15 mpg. I have some pulleys on her, but that's about it. I'm looking to get a K&N cone filter, but do I have to buy the complete air inlet assembly, or can I just bolt the cone onto the stock air inlet? Would new headers help? If so, whick kind? I've heard things about shorties, but I wouldn't know which to get. What else is a realatively cheap and econmical bolt on improvement?

05-01-2002, 02:31 PM	#2
gtsr515 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Sunny, Hot, Sebring, Florida Posts: 725	160 thermostats are a no no for 5.0's, they stay open all the time, especially in summer, never allowing the coolant to stay in the radiator long enough to cool, goto a 180. __________________ Remember...2nd place is 1st place for losers!

05-01-2002, 02:37 PM	#3
DRASTiK Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 536	Well I probably can't answer everything, but I'll do what I can. Your heat problem could be a bad water pump, or a blockage somewhere. It's also possible that moving up to a 180 thermostat will actually keep it cooler because a 160 basically stays open all the time, and therefore doesn't give the water enough time to cool in the radiator. A flex fan would cool it a little better, but it is much more dangerous than a clutch fan and it will rob you of a few more horsepower than a clutch setup. If you lose the cats, you don't need a chip. Whoever told you that was just plain wrong. I have an off road H-pipe and no cats, just like many members here and we don't need chips. The K&N issue can go either way. If you're still using the factory air box, then they sell a K&N filter that fits right into it. If you're using a fenderwell induction, then you could still just buy a cone filter. Cheap performance mods, are a fenderwell air induction system, bumping the timing up to around 14, but make sure there's no detonation. If the air silencer is still in your factory airbox, then remove it for a couple of horses. There are many different things beyond that which you can do, but we need you to tell us what kind of performance you're shooting for and we can guide you onto the right track from there. __________________ Dave 88 GT - 13.4@106 on street tires (2.2 60ft) My Stang RHC member #75 My stang is FOR SALE!!

05-01-2002, 03:08 PM	#4
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Thanks guys... I'll go buy that 180 thermostat after work...I'll also get some water wetter (I saw some earlier posts). While I'm there, I'll get a new radiator cap...what pressure should I get? What are the pluses/minuses of dropping the cats. I live on the border, and I know of a shop that will charge $20 to cut out the rear cats, and $20 to hollow out the front ones. What's the difference between fenderwall induction and a factory airbox? I have a box mounted on the fenderwall near the alternator. There's an inlet in the fenderwall, under the filter. Which do I have? If I have an airbox, what and where is the air silencer? I wanted to pick up the Cone k & n filter, because I heard it offered better performance. Am I wrong in this? I really appreciate your help guys. I'm not necessarily looking for track times, but I do want to get the most that I can out of my car without destroying the mileage or reliability. It's my daily driver.

05-01-2002, 03:12 PM	#5
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Too hot to handle Falcons Talon All good advice given so far. Ditch that 160 stat for at least a 180 or a stock 192 and see what happens with the overheating problem. The factory clutch fan is fine but make certain it's working properly. With the engine off, it should have resistance when you try to turn it. The fan tends to provide cooling at low speed or at idle so it's a very likely suspect. While removing the cats is advisable for better performance, they're probably not the cause of running hot. As already stated, you can remove the catalytic converters without the need for a chip.

05-01-2002, 04:14 PM	#6
jerrys84 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: minnesota Posts: 129	had the same problems with a 160 stat, switched to 180, much better.. as far as performance, remove the air silencer!! the rest depends on the $$'s you wanna spend.. Gear change is a must!! __________________ 91 LX 'work in progress' previous stangs; lightly modded 84GT 81 2.3 converted to 302 auto

05-01-2002, 06:12 PM	#7
NotchJohnson Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 593	Definitely pluck that air filter silencer out of there. Its the first thing I did when I picked up my car. A 180 degree thermo would help your heat problem, but stop and go driving in traffic definitely heats up any stang, ive seen that on all 3 of the stangs ive owned. A good exhaust system is probably the most popular mod on these cars, great sound and better performance - John __________________ 89 notch-finally not stock!! ported gt40's, ported cobra intake, 65mm tb, 75mm maf, mac cai, lt's,prochamber, fms 1.6 rr, 125 shot.

05-01-2002, 06:14 PM	#8
NotchJohnson Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 593	By the way - Welcome to Mustangworks man! __________________ 89 notch-finally not stock!! ported gt40's, ported cobra intake, 65mm tb, 75mm maf, mac cai, lt's,prochamber, fms 1.6 rr, 125 shot.

05-01-2002, 06:22 PM	#9
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Can you guys describe to me what the air filter silencer looks like and where it's located? I'm anxious to take y'alls advice. I already got the thermo and I'm gonna start dissecting her...You guys are great!

05-01-2002, 09:46 PM	#10
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Allright, I got the air filter silencer out, put in the 180 thermo, flushed the cooling system, dropped in new 80/20 antifreeze mix w/ water wetter. I'll probably cut out the cats this Saturday. I would really like to get a conical K&N filter, but do I need to buy the air inlet arm assembly? Is there an application that fits the oem air inlet arm? I still need to advance the timing a bit, but I think I'll do that at dad's place this weekend.

05-01-2002, 10:16 PM	#11
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	A box K&N replacement is actually better than adding a conical filter to the end of the stock hose. The reason is because the air from the fenderwell is colder and denser than the air out of the engine compartment. Make sure there are no cracks or anything in your airbox if you decide to go this route. The box style filter costs about $40 to $50. As for headers, I would go with equal lenghts. Just about any brand will work. It depends on what you want to spend. FYI, you can buy an off road h pipe for about $100 plus shipping. No cats and an aftermarket exhaust will give you excellent sound, if you like the rumbling sound of a V8. A real boost on any 5.0 is putting in a set of gears. Since you want the best gas mileage you can get, I would reccomend the 3.55s. You can really feel the difference! Hope this helps you out. __________________ The sig says it all.

05-02-2002, 05:36 AM	#12
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I've got a few questions regarding your engine running hot: 1) How are you determining that it's running hot? (Factory gauges are notoriously inaccurate, and the only way to get an honest temp reading is with an aftermarket gauge) 2) Does it ever "boil over"? (this is a sign of a weak radiator cap. a Stant pressure relief cap, with a red lever, rated at 16 psi, would be a good replacement) 3) When you said you "dropped in an 80/20 antifreeze mix", you did mean 80% water/20% coolant, right? (coolant actually retains heat, and a mixture containing more than 20% coolant will actually cause the system to run hotter) 4) Do you have the factory fan shroud installed? Installing the 180 t-stat will certainly help, but I would have gone with an OEM 192 from Ford. As far as your cats being clogged, this is easily checked with a vacuum gauge. There are two easy tests you can run to determine if your exhaust is restricted (cats clogged). First test: 1) Attach vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum source. 2) Observe vacuum at idle. 3) Snap throttle to WOT and release, while watching the gauge. The vacuum gauge should drop to almost zero when you hit WOT. When the throttle snaps closed immediately after, the vacuum should read 4" to 6" higher than what it did at idle. It should then settle back at the same reading it was at idle before the WOT snap. This whole exchange should go from idle reading to idle reading in 2-3 seconds, tops. If it takes longer for the gauge to return to the same idle reading, your exhaust is restricted. The longer it takes, the worse the restriction. Second test: 1) Attach vacuum gauge to manifold vacuum source. 2) Warm up engine. 3) Observe vacuum at idle. 4) Leave engine idling for 10 minutes. Do not touch anything on the car during this time. In fact, go inside and fix some coffee. 5) After 10 minutes, observe the vacuum. If the vacuum is the same or higher, you don't have any resctrictions. If the vacuum gauge has dropped, you do have a restriction. The more it drops, the greater the restriction. If it drops 1" or more, you have a serious restriction. 2" or more and you might as well have the exhaust welded shut. Keep in mind that a rich exhaust will clog up cats in a hurry. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-02-2002, 08:44 AM	#13
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Ieatcamaros, I've been considering gears for the longest time. When I get the money, I'll change out to 3.55's. I've heard they are probably the way to go for my application, and since I don't plan to run it at the track, the app should be fine. The box type filter is definitely less of a headache, since no shops around here stock any type of unversal k&n cones. Good call on the cooler air. That was going to be my next question. When I was taking off the box, the two top bolt were frozen, even after wd40, and I ended up tearing the screw of the rubber grommets. I'll probably bolt it down somewhere and cover the screwholes w/silicone. I'll be keeping a lookout for offroad h-pipes. I plan on getting the cats cutout tomorrow or Saturday, and I'm looking to pick up a 48.5" belt and bypass the smog pump. PKRWUD Yes, I'm going by the factory gauge. The reason I think it's running hot is because it would be below the middle of the gauge on the highway. After a while in town, the gauge would inch up and eventually, the air con would cut out. I should get an aftermarket gauge...maybe today... It hasn't boiled over, but I replaced the cap anyway. Why wait for it to go out. The mix is 80 water 20 antifreeze. Have you guys ever seen the instructions on Prestone antifreeze? 70 coolant to 30 water for max protection??? Yes, I've got the shroud on. If I continue with heating problems, I may go to the 192 thermo. Thanks for the steps on the cat check, but since I'm going to cut them out anyway, I won't be doing that.

05-02-2002, 09:16 AM	#14
drudis Moderator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Livonia, MI, USA Posts: 1,194	FYI, I got a K&N filter (fits my 1989) when I converted to a 12" cone in the fender during the S-trim install. If interested, gimme a shout at home: drudis@dariusrudis.com __________________ Darius Rudis, Moderator Corner Carvers Delight 1989 Mustang LX - Open Track Car http://www.dariusrudis.com

05-02-2002, 10:12 AM	#15
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Well, I just picked up my k&n flat filter, and I'm going to go and pick up an 84.5 s-belt to bypass the smog pump. There's a shop that will cut out my cats and fabricate an H-pipe for me for $60.00 Seems like a good deal to me. What diameter should he use? I'm assuming that he will run straight pipes from the gutted cats to the mufflers. What should the diameter of the cross pipe be as well. Damn, these upgrades are going fast. Keep the tips coming guys...like I said, y'all are awesome!!!

05-02-2002, 01:01 PM	#16
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Well, even though I have the flat k&n filter, I'll be asking for the 57-2502 later. Baby steps...

05-02-2002, 02:48 PM	#17
NotchJohnson Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 593	Youll want to use 2 1/2 inch pipe __________________ 89 notch-finally not stock!! ported gt40's, ported cobra intake, 65mm tb, 75mm maf, mac cai, lt's,prochamber, fms 1.6 rr, 125 shot.

05-02-2002, 02:49 PM	#18
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Same size on the crossover pipe?

05-02-2002, 02:53 PM	#19
NotchJohnson Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 593	What do you mean by crossover pipe? The pice of pipe connecting both sides? If so then yes, same size on that piece. __________________ 89 notch-finally not stock!! ported gt40's, ported cobra intake, 65mm tb, 75mm maf, mac cai, lt's,prochamber, fms 1.6 rr, 125 shot.

05-02-2002, 02:56 PM	#20
Falcons Talon T.P.M. President Join Date: May 2002 Location: Brownsville Posts: 265	Thank you NJ...yes, it was the pipe i was talking about. I'm not familiar with all the jargon yet...

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