How hot can aluminum heads get before they warp? - Page 2

Stang_ROTY · 08-03-2001, 03:11 PM

I'm trying to see if the water pump is the problem so after I replaced the crank pulley with the standard diameter and start the engine with the rad. cap off. I let it run a few minutes and then it starts to blow the coolant out onto the ground. Does this mean that I have the wrong water pump. It's supposed to be a reverrse rotation Edelbrock. But if it's blowing out does that mean it's a standard rotation?? I'm going to post a new topic for this one.

429AL · 08-03-2001, 10:00 PM

You need to ask your engine guy if he drilled any holes in the block, four on each side. If he says (what holes) well then you know the problem.

------------------
Stock 89 GT with 147000 miles,but not for long. Now with 3.73`s, soon 306 from 85 install.

Stang_ROTY · 08-04-2001, 10:47 AM

429AL-The Edelbrock people told us we didn't need to drill the holes for their heads. Have I been lied to or am I missing your point?

Stang_ROTY · 08-04-2001, 01:37 PM

What's a good way for me to check the direction of my fan? How did you come to find out it was wired wrong?

Quote:

Originally posted by rbatson:
You're not going to believe this, I very recently went through something exactly like this. My car was running hot after the new engine so I upgraded the coolings system with a griffin rad and black magic fan. It still ran hot.. even hotter than before. I changed the thermostat a couple times(aggrevating with a blower on) and I kept trying to figure it out. Long story short.. the black magic fan was blowing the wrong way!! It was wired wrong from the factory! It felt like it was blowing in the right direction when you put your hand behind it because it was blowing against the radiator and then back towards the engine. We dropped the fan and switched 2 wires and now it runs so cool... its perfect.

08-04-2001, 02:16 PM

The car was hot and I left the ignition on so that the fan was running, to try to cool the car down, and was leaning over the front of the car looking under the hood. I felt a very light breeze coming from in from of the grill, very light(didn't think too much of it at the time). Days later I was thinking about it and took a thin piece of cardboard and eased it between the fan and engine. It would blow the cardboard towards the engine until it got close to the center of the fan and it would start pulling it. The dang fan was blowing all that engine heat right into the rad and I couldn't go 15 miles without it boiling over. We checked to make sure it was wired right into the car and it was, but it was definitely blowing the wrong way. We dropped the fan and I opened the little box on the fan I switched a couple wires and presto the fan was blowing the right direction

. Funny thing, I got the fan cheap because the guy said he didn't like the fan

.

I was getting advise from everyone around here, my mechanic, mechanics at work, anyone.. I got advise like "must have air pockets" "maybe you have a clog somewhere" "have you checked the heater core?" I have a bald spot from scratching my head trying to figure it out(heeh).

Stang_ROTY · 08-04-2001, 09:35 PM

Well, we a pressure test on the cooling system with the engine off and she held 19 lbs. of pressure for over a minute. Only leak was at the therostat housing neck but with a couple turns of the screw driver it was air tight. So we decided to run the engine with the pressure tester still attached and we could feel the thermostat open and the cooling gauge stayed at 195ish the entire time she was running. My engine builder kept revving her and no leaks or drop in pressure ONCE!! No blown gaskets! That makes me feel much better. My only problem that is stopping me from going driving is a fuel leak on the drivers side middle of the freakin fuel rail. Those damn 90 degree AN fitting keep leaking on the retun to the regulator side of the fuel system. That's the driver's side fuel rail so I now have to remove the upper intake...... again. My engine builder also convinced me that the Black Majic 5.0 fan is a little too small for a 351 with no radiator shroud. The black majic is only 15 inches while the original fan on my block was a 18 incher. I think a larger electric or even mechanical fan will help. What do you all think?

jimberg · 08-04-2001, 11:40 PM

I'd say that a mechanical fan is the way to go with the kind of HP you plan to make. Get one of those police duty clutches, though.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

Stang_ROTY · 08-04-2001, 11:51 PM

Funny you say that. My Uncle gave me a 7 fin fan out of a 85 crown vic police car earlier today. It has a clutch on it but I think I need some type of spacer to use it. Will I still need a shroud for this fan (if it fits?)

Quote:

Originally posted by jimberg:
I'd say that a mechanical fan is the way to go with the kind of HP you plan to make. Get one of those police duty clutches, though.

jimberg · 08-04-2001, 11:53 PM

A shroud will definitely help force air through the radiator better.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

Stang_ROTY · 08-05-2001, 08:31 AM

But where can I find a larger shroud? Our 5.0 original OEM shrouds won't fit the larger 18in. fans that the 351W require. What size are you using? Did Ford or Saleen ever make a factory 5.0 style fox body mustang with a 351W?

jimberg · 08-05-2001, 11:26 AM

I'm using the stock 5.0 fan and shroud.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

MiracleMax · 08-05-2001, 06:48 PM

That would be a stock 5.0 fan & shroud with an HD, severe duty, police or whatever you call it clutch.

I'll tell you what miffs me, Jeg's has these integrated cooling systems (fan and radiator) good for some hefty HP, but they're all for Brand X and Nocar models.

Here we are with legion among the muscle and no fan/radiator assembly despite adds in MM&FF? I'll have to check Becools web page to see if they have an app for the fox car?

let me cut the rant machine off ::click::

Okay, here's hoping things work out with the mech fan ROTY.

Stang_ROTY · 08-05-2001, 08:34 PM

I have a fan from a 85 Police car that had a 351W with a V-belt system in it. But it wasn't designed for a reverse rotation. Will it still work, or at least work better than this Black Majic crap? This fan also has a police package clutch on it. What is this clutch actually do? Should I use it and try to find a shroud from a crown vic or 5.0 to match? Thanks for the help.

jimberg · 08-05-2001, 11:42 PM

Get a stock 5.0 fan and shroud and keep the police duty clutch while ditching the fan. You want the fan to pull cold air in from the outside not pushing hot air from the engine compartment through the radiator.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-05-2001, 11:51 PM

Have you checked you black magic fan to see which way it is blowing??

Stang_ROTY · 08-06-2001, 08:22 AM

It's blowing from the pass. side to the driver's side. Counterclockwise when sitting in the car, clockwise when stading in front of the car. Is that a problem?

08-06-2001, 07:40 PM

I don't have my mustang right now so I can't go check, but... I really can't remember(I don't wanna tell you wrong). Do like I did and take a narrow piece of card board and put it between the engine and fan(with engine off) and move it towards the center of the fan. That should tell you, it showed me.

jimberg · 08-06-2001, 07:50 PM

Whichever direction the fan spins, the leading edge of rotation should be nearer the radiator.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

BilLster · 08-06-2001, 07:51 PM

as far as the rotation thing goesa geoff chambers has a good write up on it you could just take a short belt and try the two routings and if it cools with the normal set up you have the wrong water pump but you could just change you routing like in the article.

both pumps force the water the same way when working right it has to do with the side of the pully the belt goes on.

------------------
89 with 395 single stage n2o .garret t3. 373's Suspention worked out finnaly . need cage .

Stang_ROTY · 08-06-2001, 10:06 PM

Where can I read Jeff's article? I have a correct 302 5.0 reverse rotation pump made by edelbrock. My engine originally came with a standard rotation, pass. side inlet water pump. Any 5.0 owner can verify that their pump inlet is on the driver's side. My engine came with a pass. side outlet. Could that be my problem? Or maybe it's the thermostat. I'll know for sure real soon. I ordered the OEM shroud and a reverse rotation flex fan today. It'll be here by Thurs. Hopefully this works. I really want to drive my car. My situation sounds a lot like the guy who posted a cooling question, he goes by tb. My thermo. doesn't seem to open at the right time. I had to leave it in the water until boiling point to open it.
That probably has something to do with it.

Quote:

Originally posted by BilLster:
as far as the rotation thing goesa geoff chambers has a good write up on it you could just take a short belt and try the two routings and if it cools with the normal set up you have the wrong water pump but you could just change you routing like in the article.

both pumps force the water the same way when working right it has to do with the side of the pully the belt goes on.

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08-03-2001, 03:11 PM	#21
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	I'm trying to see if the water pump is the problem so after I replaced the crank pulley with the standard diameter and start the engine with the rad. cap off. I let it run a few minutes and then it starts to blow the coolant out onto the ground. Does this mean that I have the wrong water pump. It's supposed to be a reverrse rotation Edelbrock. But if it's blowing out does that mean it's a standard rotation?? I'm going to post a new topic for this one.

08-03-2001, 10:00 PM	#22
429AL Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Tacoma,wa,usa Posts: 41	You need to ask your engine guy if he drilled any holes in the block, four on each side. If he says (what holes) well then you know the problem. ------------------ Stock 89 GT with 147000 miles,but not for long. Now with 3.73`s, soon 306 from 85 install.

08-04-2001, 10:47 AM	#23
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	429AL-The Edelbrock people told us we didn't need to drill the holes for their heads. Have I been lied to or am I missing your point?

08-04-2001, 02:16 PM	#25
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	The car was hot and I left the ignition on so that the fan was running, to try to cool the car down, and was leaning over the front of the car looking under the hood. I felt a very light breeze coming from in from of the grill, very light(didn't think too much of it at the time). Days later I was thinking about it and took a thin piece of cardboard and eased it between the fan and engine. It would blow the cardboard towards the engine until it got close to the center of the fan and it would start pulling it. The dang fan was blowing all that engine heat right into the rad and I couldn't go 15 miles without it boiling over. We checked to make sure it was wired right into the car and it was, but it was definitely blowing the wrong way. We dropped the fan and I opened the little box on the fan I switched a couple wires and presto the fan was blowing the right direction . Funny thing, I got the fan cheap because the guy said he didn't like the fan . I was getting advise from everyone around here, my mechanic, mechanics at work, anyone.. I got advise like "must have air pockets" "maybe you have a clog somewhere" "have you checked the heater core?" I have a bald spot from scratching my head trying to figure it out(heeh).

08-04-2001, 09:35 PM	#26
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	Well, we a pressure test on the cooling system with the engine off and she held 19 lbs. of pressure for over a minute. Only leak was at the therostat housing neck but with a couple turns of the screw driver it was air tight. So we decided to run the engine with the pressure tester still attached and we could feel the thermostat open and the cooling gauge stayed at 195ish the entire time she was running. My engine builder kept revving her and no leaks or drop in pressure ONCE!! No blown gaskets! That makes me feel much better. My only problem that is stopping me from going driving is a fuel leak on the drivers side middle of the freakin fuel rail. Those damn 90 degree AN fitting keep leaking on the retun to the regulator side of the fuel system. That's the driver's side fuel rail so I now have to remove the upper intake...... again. My engine builder also convinced me that the Black Majic 5.0 fan is a little too small for a 351 with no radiator shroud. The black majic is only 15 inches while the original fan on my block was a 18 incher. I think a larger electric or even mechanical fan will help. What do you all think?

08-04-2001, 11:40 PM	#27
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	I'd say that a mechanical fan is the way to go with the kind of HP you plan to make. Get one of those police duty clutches, though. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-04-2001, 11:53 PM	#29
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	A shroud will definitely help force air through the radiator better. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-05-2001, 08:31 AM	#30
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	But where can I find a larger shroud? Our 5.0 original OEM shrouds won't fit the larger 18in. fans that the 351W require. What size are you using? Did Ford or Saleen ever make a factory 5.0 style fox body mustang with a 351W?

08-05-2001, 11:26 AM	#31
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	I'm using the stock 5.0 fan and shroud. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-05-2001, 06:48 PM	#32
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	That would be a stock 5.0 fan & shroud with an HD, severe duty, police or whatever you call it clutch. I'll tell you what miffs me, Jeg's has these integrated cooling systems (fan and radiator) good for some hefty HP, but they're all for Brand X and Nocar models. Here we are with legion among the muscle and no fan/radiator assembly despite adds in MM&FF? I'll have to check Becools web page to see if they have an app for the fox car? let me cut the rant machine off ::click:: Okay, here's hoping things work out with the mech fan ROTY.

08-05-2001, 08:34 PM	#33
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	I have a fan from a 85 Police car that had a 351W with a V-belt system in it. But it wasn't designed for a reverse rotation. Will it still work, or at least work better than this Black Majic crap? This fan also has a police package clutch on it. What is this clutch actually do? Should I use it and try to find a shroud from a crown vic or 5.0 to match? Thanks for the help.

08-05-2001, 11:42 PM	#34
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Get a stock 5.0 fan and shroud and keep the police duty clutch while ditching the fan. You want the fan to pull cold air in from the outside not pushing hot air from the engine compartment through the radiator. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-05-2001, 11:51 PM	#35
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	Have you checked you black magic fan to see which way it is blowing??

08-06-2001, 08:22 AM	#36
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	It's blowing from the pass. side to the driver's side. Counterclockwise when sitting in the car, clockwise when stading in front of the car. Is that a problem?

08-06-2001, 07:40 PM	#37
rbatson Guest Posts: n/a	I don't have my mustang right now so I can't go check, but... I really can't remember(I don't wanna tell you wrong). Do like I did and take a narrow piece of card board and put it between the engine and fan(with engine off) and move it towards the center of the fan. That should tell you, it showed me.

08-06-2001, 07:50 PM	#38
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Whichever direction the fan spins, the leading edge of rotation should be nearer the radiator. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

08-06-2001, 07:51 PM	#39
BilLster Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Ontario canada Posts: 446	as far as the rotation thing goesa geoff chambers has a good write up on it you could just take a short belt and try the two routings and if it cools with the normal set up you have the wrong water pump but you could just change you routing like in the article. both pumps force the water the same way when working right it has to do with the side of the pully the belt goes on. ------------------ 89 with 395 single stage n2o .garret t3. 373's Suspention worked out finnaly . need cage .