How much slower is a AOD than a T-5 - Page 2

Jeff Chambers · 11-08-2001, 08:21 AM

I know you don't want to hear it Unit, but there comes a point where your arguments start to break down, and I really don't think its too far from stock. The original posted wanted to know the differences for both stock and mildly modded cars. Now in terms of mildly modded, cars running in T/S are really too far off when compared to throwing NOS or 9# blowers at the motor. I mean we're making maybe 340hp at the wheels on average. The fastest pass ever made in T/S competition has been by an AODE car with a pro-shifted Tremec car right on its heels. So car-for-car, driver-for-driver you can't tell me that the auto won't hang with the best of the 5spds. There's plenty of average street cars out there putting down more HP to the wheels than 340 by virtue of not being saddled with the rules that I am.

I guess my point here is that the AOD suffered a miserable reputation in the earlier years until people like Len Bertrand gave it some real strength and efficient power flow. Now with its strength and the right VB/converter combo it can and does hang with the 5spds at many different levels....from near-stock to wild. Right off the showroom floor it was/is no competition whatsoever but with a few choice mods it can level the playing field real quick. It takes some understanding of the workings of the converter, valve body and the transmission as a whole, but its not that tough to greatly increase it performace. People need to get off the old '93 era kick of "AODs suck" and come to the realization that there's great potential in the AOD. I don't car how great of a shifter anyone thinks they are, it can done quicker and better with the AOD and it only has to be done twice in the span of a pass. Not to mention the reaction difference of coming off a transbrake compared to dumping a clutch. IMHO, as soon as your talking about 300rwhp or more, the additional losses in the AOD become less of a concern. The additional HP is more than paid for in consistency and power transfer performance. I've been there and lived it. My recent trip to the dyno only showed about 290rwhp with the converter unlocked, yet my car will do 7.30's in the eighth at 94mph. When I lock up the converter right around the eighth mile, its 'lights out'. If I'm side-by-side with a 5spd when I lock up the converter, I'll generally drive away from them at the big end. As far as superior gearing, what's the optimum 5spd gearing? With 3.35 first gear and 4.30 rear gears, that's a final drive of 14.40 out of the T5. With the AOD, its 2.80x4.30=12.04 times the additional multiplication provided by the converter...anywhere from 1.2 to 2.0? My stall provides a flash of about 1.3 right now, so that takes my final drive up to 15.6 and hits the tires softer than a clutch car. Where's the superb gearing of the 5spd now? My 60' are consistently better than the majority of the 5spd cars that I race against. My last three passes of the season were 1.50, 1.50, 1.51 where the best I've ever seen out of a T/S car has been maybe a 1.47 or 1.48.

We've gotten away from the original discussion. What I'm trying to instill here is that the AOD is a different beast than it was just five years ago. It can be made to be just as competitive and just as strong as any T5/3550/TKO.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
Trophy Stock #3
11.462 Seconds / 117.58 MPH
Chambers Racing Team

HiFlow5 0 · 11-08-2001, 11:44 AM

hey jeff, i'm looking into getting a built AOD. what can u suggest i get? would a trans brake be worth it fo my combo? i also plan on adding heads and 3.73s to the combo soon. what kinda of combo's does Lentech offer, and what is mnost ideal? i just kinda want to know what i'm talking about when i call them. thank!

------------------
89 GT AOD w/ shift kit, B&M rachet shifter, Trickflow intake, Crane (E-type) cam, 70Tb, 75MAF, 1.6 Rockers, Pulleys, MAC headers and H-pipe, Dynomax mufflers, K&N, 3 core radiator, white face gauges, custom interior, cobra R rims. 14.9 at 95.07mph with stock 2.73's.

89LX 2.3 Notch, daily beater!
MY89GT

Jeff Chambers · 11-08-2001, 01:09 PM

For a mildly modded, mostly street driven car the Lentech Street Terminator would probably be sufficient. I've got what is now the Street Terminator Plus but mine's a trailer queen race car. Their transmissions are nothing short of awesome IMHO. Unless you're going to throw a blower or heavy juice to it right away, I'd go with a minimum of 4.10 gear though. The 3.73 won't be enough for the low revving N/A combination. I'm guessing somewhere around 3200-3500 stall for some decent track performance without too much heat on the street. I'd suggest installing a good cooler like the B&M Supercooler and possibly the B&M Remote Filter. I installed the filter kit just for some added protection to my investment. A brake is really nice, but not a necessity unless you spend a lot of time at the track. You'll be able to foot-brake the lower stall. The brake is awesome though for racing...it'll leave real hard when you're stalled up on the brake.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
Trophy Stock #3
11.462 Seconds / 117.58 MPH
Chambers Racing Team

rel3rd · 11-08-2001, 05:41 PM

smallblock: Thanks for the compliment. There is absolutely no other modifications done to my AOD except what is listed. It is a STOCK rebuilt unit out of a 1992 GT, with a LenTech Street Terminator Lock-Up valve body, and a PI Stallion Lock-Up converter. No fancy wider OD bands, clutches, input shafts, NOTHING. Been in the car almost three years!

Mach 1: I was just funnin' with you guys. I'm more amazed than anyone that my car runs as well as it does. Not to mention how streetable it actually is.

tireburner163: I believe the 1992 and newer AOD's had an improved oiling system from the factory.

Unit 5302 · 11-08-2001, 08:59 PM

The superior gearing of the 5spd is in the 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 gear shifting. A tall 1st gear allows you to use first gear and keep the rest of the gears close. Quite frankly, slipping the clutch can compensate for how hard you "hit" on the tires.

340rwhp is about 400hp at the flywheel btw

I don't remember ever saying an AOD car cannot be made competitive, just that it's less efficient from a mechanical standpoint. If you look at my first post I point out that the torque multiplication from a good converter can make up for the actual power loss vs a T-5 car. Add gears into the equation and the AOD becomes much better than what it was stock.

I would say 340rwhp is plenty healthy, and a 94mph 1/8 mile trap is haulin *** . I don't think there are a whole lot of people running 5.0's around with much more than that.

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11-08-2001, 08:21 AM	#21
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	I know you don't want to hear it Unit, but there comes a point where your arguments start to break down, and I really don't think its too far from stock. The original posted wanted to know the differences for both stock and mildly modded cars. Now in terms of mildly modded, cars running in T/S are really too far off when compared to throwing NOS or 9# blowers at the motor. I mean we're making maybe 340hp at the wheels on average. The fastest pass ever made in T/S competition has been by an AODE car with a pro-shifted Tremec car right on its heels. So car-for-car, driver-for-driver you can't tell me that the auto won't hang with the best of the 5spds. There's plenty of average street cars out there putting down more HP to the wheels than 340 by virtue of not being saddled with the rules that I am. I guess my point here is that the AOD suffered a miserable reputation in the earlier years until people like Len Bertrand gave it some real strength and efficient power flow. Now with its strength and the right VB/converter combo it can and does hang with the 5spds at many different levels....from near-stock to wild. Right off the showroom floor it was/is no competition whatsoever but with a few choice mods it can level the playing field real quick. It takes some understanding of the workings of the converter, valve body and the transmission as a whole, but its not that tough to greatly increase it performace. People need to get off the old '93 era kick of "AODs suck" and come to the realization that there's great potential in the AOD. I don't car how great of a shifter anyone thinks they are, it can done quicker and better with the AOD and it only has to be done twice in the span of a pass. Not to mention the reaction difference of coming off a transbrake compared to dumping a clutch. IMHO, as soon as your talking about 300rwhp or more, the additional losses in the AOD become less of a concern. The additional HP is more than paid for in consistency and power transfer performance. I've been there and lived it. My recent trip to the dyno only showed about 290rwhp with the converter unlocked, yet my car will do 7.30's in the eighth at 94mph. When I lock up the converter right around the eighth mile, its 'lights out'. If I'm side-by-side with a 5spd when I lock up the converter, I'll generally drive away from them at the big end. As far as superior gearing, what's the optimum 5spd gearing? With 3.35 first gear and 4.30 rear gears, that's a final drive of 14.40 out of the T5. With the AOD, its 2.80x4.30=12.04 times the additional multiplication provided by the converter...anywhere from 1.2 to 2.0? My stall provides a flash of about 1.3 right now, so that takes my final drive up to 15.6 and hits the tires softer than a clutch car. Where's the superb gearing of the 5spd now? My 60' are consistently better than the majority of the 5spd cars that I race against. My last three passes of the season were 1.50, 1.50, 1.51 where the best I've ever seen out of a T/S car has been maybe a 1.47 or 1.48. We've gotten away from the original discussion. What I'm trying to instill here is that the AOD is a different beast than it was just five years ago. It can be made to be just as competitive and just as strong as any T5/3550/TKO. ------------------ Jeff Chambers Trophy Stock #3 11.462 Seconds / 117.58 MPH Chambers Racing Team

11-08-2001, 11:44 AM	#22
HiFlow5 0 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Springfield, Ma, usa Posts: 706	hey jeff, i'm looking into getting a built AOD. what can u suggest i get? would a trans brake be worth it fo my combo? i also plan on adding heads and 3.73s to the combo soon. what kinda of combo's does Lentech offer, and what is mnost ideal? i just kinda want to know what i'm talking about when i call them. thank! ------------------ 89 GT AOD w/ shift kit, B&M rachet shifter, Trickflow intake, Crane (E-type) cam, 70Tb, 75MAF, 1.6 Rockers, Pulleys, MAC headers and H-pipe, Dynomax mufflers, K&N, 3 core radiator, white face gauges, custom interior, cobra R rims. 14.9 at 95.07mph with stock 2.73's. 89LX 2.3 Notch, daily beater! MY89GT

11-08-2001, 01:09 PM	#23
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	For a mildly modded, mostly street driven car the Lentech Street Terminator would probably be sufficient. I've got what is now the Street Terminator Plus but mine's a trailer queen race car. Their transmissions are nothing short of awesome IMHO. Unless you're going to throw a blower or heavy juice to it right away, I'd go with a minimum of 4.10 gear though. The 3.73 won't be enough for the low revving N/A combination. I'm guessing somewhere around 3200-3500 stall for some decent track performance without too much heat on the street. I'd suggest installing a good cooler like the B&M Supercooler and possibly the B&M Remote Filter. I installed the filter kit just for some added protection to my investment. A brake is really nice, but not a necessity unless you spend a lot of time at the track. You'll be able to foot-brake the lower stall. The brake is awesome though for racing...it'll leave real hard when you're stalled up on the brake. ------------------ Jeff Chambers Trophy Stock #3 11.462 Seconds / 117.58 MPH Chambers Racing Team

11-08-2001, 05:41 PM	#24
rel3rd BarneyCar Pilot Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 217	smallblock: Thanks for the compliment. There is absolutely no other modifications done to my AOD except what is listed. It is a STOCK rebuilt unit out of a 1992 GT, with a LenTech Street Terminator Lock-Up valve body, and a PI Stallion Lock-Up converter. No fancy wider OD bands, clutches, input shafts, NOTHING. Been in the car almost three years! Mach 1: I was just funnin' with you guys. I'm more amazed than anyone that my car runs as well as it does. Not to mention how streetable it actually is. tireburner163: I believe the 1992 and newer AOD's had an improved oiling system from the factory.

11-08-2001, 08:59 PM	#25
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	The superior gearing of the 5spd is in the 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 gear shifting. A tall 1st gear allows you to use first gear and keep the rest of the gears close. Quite frankly, slipping the clutch can compensate for how hard you "hit" on the tires. 340rwhp is about 400hp at the flywheel btw I don't remember ever saying an AOD car cannot be made competitive, just that it's less efficient from a mechanical standpoint. If you look at my first post I point out that the torque multiplication from a good converter can make up for the actual power loss vs a T-5 car. Add gears into the equation and the AOD becomes much better than what it was stock. I would say 340rwhp is plenty healthy, and a 94mph 1/8 mile trap is haulin *** . I don't think there are a whole lot of people running 5.0's around with much more than that.