superchargers... which one to get? - Page 2

1995MGTS · 05-28-2001, 10:40 PM

Guess I need to get rid of the garbage in my engine bay. Just can't make any power with those little, cheap superchargers; see sig. :{
Anyway, for good reliable power, I would recommend Vortech. Seems like everyone in my car club has one. I hear nothing but good things about them. I was on a budget and got a very good deal on my SVO Powerdyne, brand new. So if money is a consideration, you may want to try it but you won't out power any of the other big three names.
By the way, I have almost 3000 miles on my PD, 19 dyno runs, and a dozen quarter mile passes without a hiccup.

------------------
FMS/Powerdyne 6psi SC, 73mm maf, 65mm TB, Cobra u/l intake, 24lb inj, 1.7" rockers, GT-40Y aluminum heads, Steeda #19 cam, MAC 1 5/8" long-tubes, MAC 2 1/2" pro-chamber, Dynomax Super Turbo mufflers, MAC 2 1/2" chromed exhaust, BBK 255lph fuel pump, FMS aluminum drive shaft, FMS 3.55 gears, and custom chip dyno-tuned by Swanson Performance. 391.0rwhp/377.5 rwtq SAE corrected

GreeceLightning · 05-28-2001, 11:19 PM

Hey Moosejaw, do you have that ATI procharger P-1SC? That is the gear-driven, self-lubricating one. That is the s/c of interest for me. If so, then I guess you can back up their 85% power gain. How much did it cost you? And how was the install?

moosejaw · 05-29-2001, 12:25 AM

My blower is the older model P600 that uses engine oil. I have installed 2 P1SC units neither customer was to interested in dyno numbers though (spend all that money and no dyno?). The new P1sc is quieter than the P600 and the P600 is quieter than the old Vortech V-1.

I paid $2500 used for my blower with a 3-core intercooler.

All of ATI Hp claims are based on a stock motor. I did not have a stock configuration when I purchased my blower but I did have a common GT40 head/intake/E303 cam package. I think FRPP puts flywheel power at 340 for the GT40 longblock package w/E303. Correcting my GT-40 dyno for flywheel would net ~ 470 HP.

This would only be 38% gain but there are some factors to consider for this comparison. I did not have the intercooler hooked up, which requires air flow to work well anyway. The motor had a dead cylinder.[Number 8 cylinder lost its compression ring and part of the piston from an earlier incident and detonated itself] The ensuing detonation caused the head gasket to lift at 5000 RPM essentially ending power production at this point.

So in a worse than worse case scenario ~40% would be had. I think my numbers are very inconclusive except to show that I gained (theoretically) 130 HP with a lame horse.

I am about to do new dynos on the "new" motor in naturally aspirated and with the blower. There is really no good way to test the intercooler except with the marine cooler (like ATI did for their tests) so any blower dyno numbers are going to be conservative compared to real world road #'s.

The faster you go the more air flow to the intercooler the more effecient it is. So keep this in mind. Also the kits are not that hard to install and their belt tensioners are top notch. No slipping drive belts.

Mike

------------------
Live near St.Louis?
Check out Mustang Muscle and Dyno in High Ridge, MO
Check out my ride.

SmokeyDP · 05-29-2001, 08:56 AM

I am thinking of getting the Kenne Bell at the end of this summer because I dont spend much time at the track and my engine is mostly stock. I heard to get it to work properly you should be running a stock crank pulley. My car has BBK underdrive pullies right now, will this be a problem?

------------------
1992 GT 5.0L Convertible
BBK Shorties, Flowmasters, Super Chip, Mass Air, Under Drive Pullies, Hurst Shifter, Duck Tape
AIM: SmokeyDP

Mike_W · 05-29-2001, 12:22 PM

I have the new S-trim quite version and it's great, dyno numbers next week. My decision was based on effieciency and reliability. Paxton Novi was 2nd choice. Powerdyne is coming out with gear driven unit pretty soon and Kruger has an ultra effiecient blower(there new so I was sceptical). I would'nt be worried about an intercooler unless your sitting in traffic for a while then decide to street race, or road racing. Around here (and probably everywhere else) Vortech is mainstream, distributers, tuners, & other racers. Plus availibilty of add-on parts: braces, pulleys, power pipes, etc. All made my decision clear. Kenne bell was never a thought, who wants all that power right off the bat, keeping the tires planted at all times is hard to do even with no blower plus you run out of steam on top end. If you want to be sitting their spinning tires (and buying them faster) while the other guy is gone, buy the bell. You would think you would want boost to come on linearly like a turbo putting you on the brink of traction the whole race. Oh yeh, gas mileage & engine wear, cruising aroung at 2000-2500 rpm's, gee full boost with bell & hardly any with centrifical. It's sounds like i'm putting them down, but it's whatever your situation or combination calls for. Good luck

------------------
90LX, T-5, Vortech V2-SQ, Holley, Twisted Wedge Stage1, X-303

stangsrule · 05-29-2001, 01:48 PM

Mike_W, no offence dude but you have no idea what you are talking about with the Kenne Bell... None of what is about to follow is an attack on you I just wanted to straightn out a few mis-conceptions that you and others seem to have. I have the Blowzilla with a few other mods and I personally think it is the best street blower bar none... Now I will give you the fact that it isn't the most serious race blower but that isn't to say that the average mustang can't be competive at the lower classes of racing with it...First off,when you say "who wants all that power right off the bat" well why do you think so many people like big blocks? They are all about torque and low end grunt just like the KB. Yes traction is a problem but that is a given whenever you raise the power level and it can and SHOULD be addressed... Besides it is a blast to be able to lite them up at will, and you just have to get over the idea of reving it and dumping the clutch... And I have no idea what you are talking about when you mention running out of steam at the top end... My boost gauge shows the same amount of boost from 2000-6250 rpm... And the when you state that you are always in boost at anything above 2000rpm is wrong also, you can cruise and 3000 or 4000 rpm without being in boost if you want to but as soon as you step on the gas you have full boost!!! Now obviously the final decision should be made with your intended use as the number one consideration and the KB certainly isn't for everyone, but for those that want a killer SLEEPER for the street the KB has to be a very strong consideration... Again, no flame intended but wanted to clear up a few things from someone that has one and has lived with and driven one daily for the last couple of years so really does know what they are talking about and not just passing on hearsay... GreeceLightning, whatever blower (or turbo, and I do like turbos!) you decide to go with will be a blast so do your research and then dive in and have a blast!!!

------------------
92GT all the free stuff and a few bolt-ons, lowered with Ebiach's and Koni's, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, lower G-brace and jacking rails. BBK upper and lower control arms, polyurethane bushings all around and Ken Bell blower, ram-air, 80mm mass air, etc.

crewzin · 05-29-2001, 11:06 PM

I BOUGHT A USED POWERDYNE FOR A GRAND. IT HAD TEN GRAND ON IT AND I PUT ANOTHER FIFTEEN SO FAR. IT WAS EASY TO INSTALL, ABOUT FOUR HOURS. NO OIL LINES OR OTHER STUFF. I PUT IN THE 11PSI PULLEY AND SEVEN IN CRANK WITH NO BYPASS. THIS WAS A STOCK MOTOR, AND I DONT MEAN LOOKING. THE ONLY THING CHANGED UNDER THE HOOD WAS A MSD-BTM AND REGULATOR. IT CUT 2 SECONDS OFF THE QUARTER MILE, BUT THE REAL FUN IS THE EVERYDAY DRIVING. BEST OF ALL WAS THE SMALL AMOUNT INVESTED. MONEY DICTATES ALL POWER.

moosejaw · 05-30-2001, 03:16 AM

To add to stangsrule statement (great post BTW). With the KB you don't have to hose clamp your vacuum lines! All vacuum accessories work as stock. Definitely the easiest of all the blowers to maintain.

Mike

------------------
Live near St.Louis?
Check out Mustang Muscle and Dyno in High Ridge, MO
Check out my ride.

GreeceLightning · 05-30-2001, 09:06 AM

Ok, so Kenne Bell sounds like a great one... does anyone know any web sites where I can either learn about these, or find pricing? Thanks.

Angelo

Ford Vader · 05-30-2001, 10:25 AM

I'm planning on buying a s/c soon and have been researching them for a while. The Kenne Bell looks great for a street car. If you want to get more info on the web about them check out www.kenne-bell.com. Its not Kenne Bell's official website but it has some good info and some forums. One of the things I like about the Kenne Bell is that the boost is not controlled by the engine rpm, its controlled by the throttle position. So you can have full boost at ~2000 rpm, but that's only if you floor it. If you give it part throttle, you'll get part boost.
Hope this helps. No matter what you get, you're going to have fun!

Mike

stangsrule · 05-30-2001, 12:01 PM

The best thing to do is call them at 909-941-6646 and ask for an info packet. The packet is very complete and extremely informative. There is tons of info in it most of which would apply to any SC application, and all his info is based on hundreds and hundreds of dyno pulls...

If you have any questions feel free to email me, I am not a KB expert but do have a couple of years experience with it and if I can't answer your questions you can call their tech line at 909-941-0985. Again, whatever you decide to go with I wish you the best with it.

------------------
92GT all the free stuff and a few bolt-ons, lowered with Ebiach's and Koni's, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, lower G-brace and jacking rails. BBK upper and lower control arms, polyurethane bushings all around and Ken Bell blower, ram-air, 80mm mass air, etc.

Chris_H · 05-31-2001, 02:29 AM

I have been looking at getting a Kenne Bell also when I have the money. I also want a 331 stroker to go with it, hoping it will be a mean open road car. I found this page which has some good info on it for the Kenne Bell. Hope it helps. http://www.pandjspeedshop.com/public_html/belle.html

Chris

GreeceLightning · 05-31-2001, 08:18 AM

Wow, the Kenne Bell sounds like a cool unit. I think that it's awesome that boost relies on throttle position rather than rpm's. Are any of the other superchargers like that? Thanks.

Brcuda · 06-01-2001, 10:49 AM

If you want it for the street the Kenne Bell is the only way to go. I have taken mine off because I am going a 393 YS-trim Vortech. I love it so much that I have it sitting on the self and will not sell it. I will probably buy another mustang to put it on.

------------------
Kenne Bell supercharged stang 93LX (the perfect sleeper) Named Wheezer 11.901@117.40 on BFGs/w 1.70 60's

Brcuda · 06-01-2001, 11:02 AM

By the way, nothing beats a Kenne Bell when it comes to off-idle torque. On the street you can beat cars that would kill you at the track. But, we are talking street, right?

------------------
Kenne Bell supercharged stang 93LX (the perfect sleeper) Named Wheezer Building 393 stroker with YS-trim Vortech :-)
11.901@117.40 on BFGs/w 1.70 60's

95mustanggt · 06-01-2001, 12:58 PM

Dam! I just read one of those KB pages and I'm sold. What does the 5 psi kit cost? 8 psi kit? Anyone know?

------------------
Driving: 1998 F-150
Far way in Edmonton==>

1995 Mustang GT

Skyman · 06-01-2001, 01:15 PM

Ive yet to see a KB car run better than 11's w/ heads/cam/intake and high boost. I just don't see impressive MPH #'s from them. And how long are you at low rpms? W/ my car I nail it and w/ in 1.5seconds Im at 5500rpm, so I would have full boost. And from a roll jut pick a gear and your in your boost. Sure the KB has low RPM boost, but you never use low RPM's when racing, unless you have a puny motor that can get the car upto its power band quickly.

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows.
12.55@107mph
50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added.

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05-28-2001, 10:40 PM	#21
1995MGTS Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Chesapeake, VA USA Posts: 69	Guess I need to get rid of the garbage in my engine bay. Just can't make any power with those little, cheap superchargers; see sig. :{ Anyway, for good reliable power, I would recommend Vortech. Seems like everyone in my car club has one. I hear nothing but good things about them. I was on a budget and got a very good deal on my SVO Powerdyne, brand new. So if money is a consideration, you may want to try it but you won't out power any of the other big three names. By the way, I have almost 3000 miles on my PD, 19 dyno runs, and a dozen quarter mile passes without a hiccup. ------------------ FMS/Powerdyne 6psi SC, 73mm maf, 65mm TB, Cobra u/l intake, 24lb inj, 1.7" rockers, GT-40Y aluminum heads, Steeda #19 cam, MAC 1 5/8" long-tubes, MAC 2 1/2" pro-chamber, Dynomax Super Turbo mufflers, MAC 2 1/2" chromed exhaust, BBK 255lph fuel pump, FMS aluminum drive shaft, FMS 3.55 gears, and custom chip dyno-tuned by Swanson Performance. 391.0rwhp/377.5 rwtq SAE corrected

05-28-2001, 11:19 PM	#22
GreeceLightning Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Casselberry, FL USA Posts: 28	Hey Moosejaw, do you have that ATI procharger P-1SC? That is the gear-driven, self-lubricating one. That is the s/c of interest for me. If so, then I guess you can back up their 85% power gain. How much did it cost you? And how was the install?

05-29-2001, 12:25 AM	#23
moosejaw Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: St.Louis,MO Posts: 274	My blower is the older model P600 that uses engine oil. I have installed 2 P1SC units neither customer was to interested in dyno numbers though (spend all that money and no dyno?). The new P1sc is quieter than the P600 and the P600 is quieter than the old Vortech V-1. I paid $2500 used for my blower with a 3-core intercooler. All of ATI Hp claims are based on a stock motor. I did not have a stock configuration when I purchased my blower but I did have a common GT40 head/intake/E303 cam package. I think FRPP puts flywheel power at 340 for the GT40 longblock package w/E303. Correcting my GT-40 dyno for flywheel would net ~ 470 HP. This would only be 38% gain but there are some factors to consider for this comparison. I did not have the intercooler hooked up, which requires air flow to work well anyway. The motor had a dead cylinder.[Number 8 cylinder lost its compression ring and part of the piston from an earlier incident and detonated itself] The ensuing detonation caused the head gasket to lift at 5000 RPM essentially ending power production at this point. So in a worse than worse case scenario ~40% would be had. I think my numbers are very inconclusive except to show that I gained (theoretically) 130 HP with a lame horse. I am about to do new dynos on the "new" motor in naturally aspirated and with the blower. There is really no good way to test the intercooler except with the marine cooler (like ATI did for their tests) so any blower dyno numbers are going to be conservative compared to real world road #'s. The faster you go the more air flow to the intercooler the more effecient it is. So keep this in mind. Also the kits are not that hard to install and their belt tensioners are top notch. No slipping drive belts. Mike ------------------ Live near St.Louis? Check out Mustang Muscle and Dyno in High Ridge, MO Check out my ride.

05-29-2001, 08:56 AM	#24
SmokeyDP Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Middlesex, NJ Posts: 212	I am thinking of getting the Kenne Bell at the end of this summer because I dont spend much time at the track and my engine is mostly stock. I heard to get it to work properly you should be running a stock crank pulley. My car has BBK underdrive pullies right now, will this be a problem? ------------------ 1992 GT 5.0L Convertible BBK Shorties, Flowmasters, Super Chip, Mass Air, Under Drive Pullies, Hurst Shifter, Duck Tape AIM: SmokeyDP

05-29-2001, 12:22 PM	#25
Mike_W Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Sterling Hgts, MI, U.S. Posts: 64	I have the new S-trim quite version and it's great, dyno numbers next week. My decision was based on effieciency and reliability. Paxton Novi was 2nd choice. Powerdyne is coming out with gear driven unit pretty soon and Kruger has an ultra effiecient blower(there new so I was sceptical). I would'nt be worried about an intercooler unless your sitting in traffic for a while then decide to street race, or road racing. Around here (and probably everywhere else) Vortech is mainstream, distributers, tuners, & other racers. Plus availibilty of add-on parts: braces, pulleys, power pipes, etc. All made my decision clear. Kenne bell was never a thought, who wants all that power right off the bat, keeping the tires planted at all times is hard to do even with no blower plus you run out of steam on top end. If you want to be sitting their spinning tires (and buying them faster) while the other guy is gone, buy the bell. You would think you would want boost to come on linearly like a turbo putting you on the brink of traction the whole race. Oh yeh, gas mileage & engine wear, cruising aroung at 2000-2500 rpm's, gee full boost with bell & hardly any with centrifical. It's sounds like i'm putting them down, but it's whatever your situation or combination calls for. Good luck ------------------ 90LX, T-5, Vortech V2-SQ, Holley, Twisted Wedge Stage1, X-303

05-29-2001, 01:48 PM	#26
stangsrule Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Indiana Posts: 512	Mike_W, no offence dude but you have no idea what you are talking about with the Kenne Bell... None of what is about to follow is an attack on you I just wanted to straightn out a few mis-conceptions that you and others seem to have. I have the Blowzilla with a few other mods and I personally think it is the best street blower bar none... Now I will give you the fact that it isn't the most serious race blower but that isn't to say that the average mustang can't be competive at the lower classes of racing with it...First off,when you say "who wants all that power right off the bat" well why do you think so many people like big blocks? They are all about torque and low end grunt just like the KB. Yes traction is a problem but that is a given whenever you raise the power level and it can and SHOULD be addressed... Besides it is a blast to be able to lite them up at will, and you just have to get over the idea of reving it and dumping the clutch... And I have no idea what you are talking about when you mention running out of steam at the top end... My boost gauge shows the same amount of boost from 2000-6250 rpm... And the when you state that you are always in boost at anything above 2000rpm is wrong also, you can cruise and 3000 or 4000 rpm without being in boost if you want to but as soon as you step on the gas you have full boost!!! Now obviously the final decision should be made with your intended use as the number one consideration and the KB certainly isn't for everyone, but for those that want a killer SLEEPER for the street the KB has to be a very strong consideration... Again, no flame intended but wanted to clear up a few things from someone that has one and has lived with and driven one daily for the last couple of years so really does know what they are talking about and not just passing on hearsay... GreeceLightning, whatever blower (or turbo, and I do like turbos!) you decide to go with will be a blast so do your research and then dive in and have a blast!!! ------------------ 92GT all the free stuff and a few bolt-ons, lowered with Ebiach's and Koni's, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, lower G-brace and jacking rails. BBK upper and lower control arms, polyurethane bushings all around and Ken Bell blower, ram-air, 80mm mass air, etc.

05-29-2001, 11:06 PM	#27
crewzin Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Sour Lake, TX Posts: 211	I BOUGHT A USED POWERDYNE FOR A GRAND. IT HAD TEN GRAND ON IT AND I PUT ANOTHER FIFTEEN SO FAR. IT WAS EASY TO INSTALL, ABOUT FOUR HOURS. NO OIL LINES OR OTHER STUFF. I PUT IN THE 11PSI PULLEY AND SEVEN IN CRANK WITH NO BYPASS. THIS WAS A STOCK MOTOR, AND I DONT MEAN LOOKING. THE ONLY THING CHANGED UNDER THE HOOD WAS A MSD-BTM AND REGULATOR. IT CUT 2 SECONDS OFF THE QUARTER MILE, BUT THE REAL FUN IS THE EVERYDAY DRIVING. BEST OF ALL WAS THE SMALL AMOUNT INVESTED. MONEY DICTATES ALL POWER.

05-30-2001, 03:16 AM	#28
moosejaw Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: St.Louis,MO Posts: 274	To add to stangsrule statement (great post BTW). With the KB you don't have to hose clamp your vacuum lines! All vacuum accessories work as stock. Definitely the easiest of all the blowers to maintain. Mike ------------------ Live near St.Louis? Check out Mustang Muscle and Dyno in High Ridge, MO Check out my ride.

05-30-2001, 09:06 AM	#29
GreeceLightning Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Casselberry, FL USA Posts: 28	Ok, so Kenne Bell sounds like a great one... does anyone know any web sites where I can either learn about these, or find pricing? Thanks. Angelo

05-30-2001, 10:25 AM	#30
Ford Vader Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Asheville, NC Posts: 10	I'm planning on buying a s/c soon and have been researching them for a while. The Kenne Bell looks great for a street car. If you want to get more info on the web about them check out www.kenne-bell.com. Its not Kenne Bell's official website but it has some good info and some forums. One of the things I like about the Kenne Bell is that the boost is not controlled by the engine rpm, its controlled by the throttle position. So you can have full boost at ~2000 rpm, but that's only if you floor it. If you give it part throttle, you'll get part boost. Hope this helps. No matter what you get, you're going to have fun! Mike

05-30-2001, 12:01 PM	#31
stangsrule Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Indiana Posts: 512	The best thing to do is call them at 909-941-6646 and ask for an info packet. The packet is very complete and extremely informative. There is tons of info in it most of which would apply to any SC application, and all his info is based on hundreds and hundreds of dyno pulls... If you have any questions feel free to email me, I am not a KB expert but do have a couple of years experience with it and if I can't answer your questions you can call their tech line at 909-941-0985. Again, whatever you decide to go with I wish you the best with it. ------------------ 92GT all the free stuff and a few bolt-ons, lowered with Ebiach's and Koni's, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, lower G-brace and jacking rails. BBK upper and lower control arms, polyurethane bushings all around and Ken Bell blower, ram-air, 80mm mass air, etc.

05-31-2001, 02:29 AM	#32
Chris_H Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 488	I have been looking at getting a Kenne Bell also when I have the money. I also want a 331 stroker to go with it, hoping it will be a mean open road car. I found this page which has some good info on it for the Kenne Bell. Hope it helps. http://www.pandjspeedshop.com/public_html/belle.html Chris

05-31-2001, 08:18 AM	#33
GreeceLightning Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Casselberry, FL USA Posts: 28	Wow, the Kenne Bell sounds like a cool unit. I think that it's awesome that boost relies on throttle position rather than rpm's. Are any of the other superchargers like that? Thanks.

06-01-2001, 10:49 AM	#34
Brcuda Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: St. Louis,Mo. USA Posts: 37	If you want it for the street the Kenne Bell is the only way to go. I have taken mine off because I am going a 393 YS-trim Vortech. I love it so much that I have it sitting on the self and will not sell it. I will probably buy another mustang to put it on. ------------------ Kenne Bell supercharged stang 93LX (the perfect sleeper) Named Wheezer 11.901@117.40 on BFGs/w 1.70 60's

06-01-2001, 11:02 AM	#35
Brcuda Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: St. Louis,Mo. USA Posts: 37	By the way, nothing beats a Kenne Bell when it comes to off-idle torque. On the street you can beat cars that would kill you at the track. But, we are talking street, right? ------------------ Kenne Bell supercharged stang 93LX (the perfect sleeper) Named Wheezer Building 393 stroker with YS-trim Vortech :-) 11.901@117.40 on BFGs/w 1.70 60's

06-01-2001, 12:58 PM	#36
95mustanggt Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Kamloops, BC Posts: 2,875	Dam! I just read one of those KB pages and I'm sold. What does the 5 psi kit cost? 8 psi kit? Anyone know? ------------------ Driving: 1998 F-150 Far way in Edmonton==> 1995 Mustang GT

06-01-2001, 01:15 PM	#37
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Ive yet to see a KB car run better than 11's w/ heads/cam/intake and high boost. I just don't see impressive MPH #'s from them. And how long are you at low rpms? W/ my car I nail it and w/ in 1.5seconds Im at 5500rpm, so I would have full boost. And from a roll jut pick a gear and your in your boost. Sure the KB has low RPM boost, but you never use low RPM's when racing, unless you have a puny motor that can get the car upto its power band quickly. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph 50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added.