Shock&Struts, thats the question

Mike 88GT · 04-05-2001, 03:24 PM

I have been looking for a long time on which name brand and type of shocks and struts to get. I still don't know which way to go. I think I like the idea of having adjustables, but are they nessary? I plan on lowering my 88'GT no more than 2". Is there a good lowering number to stick with? Should I go 1,1.5 or 2"'s? And should I lower the car the same time I replace the shocks and struts? Or can I do it later? I'm working with a short budget here, but I want to do it right the first time too. What should I do and whats a good shock/strut to go with?

Mr 5 0 · 04-05-2001, 04:12 PM

All good questions and now moved to the proper forum - Windsor Power - for possible responses.

------------------
Mr. 5.0
Messageboard Administrator

2FastLX · 04-06-2001, 08:52 AM

I would wait until you have everything before installing it. It's better to do it all at once than have to tear it down over and over.

Get new spring isolators and maybe even do the poly bushings while you have the front apart. Also get a new poly sway bar link.

For a lowered car I would get adjustables, but you probably don't need them. Also, if you drop the car 2" you will need caster/camber plates to get the camber back inline.

The best way to go on a tight budget is buy some struts and shocks first. If you get some good adjustables that will improve your handling a little. You will just have to unbolt them again when you do springs.

------------------
ICQ# 42269241
Indiana Stangers Association
Buy your parts here

[This message has been edited by 2FastLX (edited 04-06-2001).]

Mike 88GT · 04-06-2001, 09:53 AM

2fastLX,
Thanks for the responce. I have a few more questions for ya. I've been told that KYB's are a good factory replacment set up, I want alittle better than that. How are the KYB adjustables? Do you think they would work with what I want to do? They seem to be in my price range. And should I lower my car only 1 1/2"? Whats a good lowering number that will improve my handling? Would I still need caster/camber plates if I do?(I don't really know what those are, I'm learning as I go here and am far from being a mechanic) And if I replace the struts and shocks first, then later lower the car later, will I need another front end alignment? If I don't need the adjustables I could spend the money on better shocks/struts, do you have any name brands in mind? Or should I stay with adjustables?(any name brands you know are good but in resonabnle price?) Thanks ALOT for all your help, I need it.

2FastLX · 04-06-2001, 10:40 AM

You may have to get caster/camber plates for 1.5" drop too. You won't know for sure if you need them until you lower the car and take it in for an alignment.

Caster/Camber plates attach at the top of the struts and allow for more camber adjustment which is the amount the tires lean in at the top. This is a standard adjustment on all cars, the c/c plates just give you more adjustment which is needed when you lower your car.

They also provide caster adjustment which is not possible to adjust on the stock setup. Caster is the front to back angle of the struts. You know how a chopper (bike with long forks on the front) handles? The forks are angled way out and it feels like the handlebars want to stay in the center position when you try to turn. That is caster angle.

You don't really need adjustables, but I'd save the extra moiney for them personally. I went with Koni's because I have heard nothing but good things about them and they are guaranteed for life (even on a lowered vehicle). BTW, I couldn't be happier with my decision to get Koni stuff.

I've heard KYB adjustables are good enough for a lowered vehicle, so you'll probably be ok with them and save a little cash. The higher end stuff would be Koni's, Bilsteins, or Tokico's. All very nice stuff.

You will have to have an alignment after installing springs. That's why I recommended doing it all at once, plus it'll save you a lot of repetative work.

------------------
ICQ# 42269241
Indiana Stangers Association
Buy your parts here

[This message has been edited by 2FastLX (edited 04-06-2001).]

Mike 88GT · 04-06-2001, 11:02 AM

2fastLX,
Damn, you hit it right on the head. You answerd everything I needed to know. I thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been stressing for about two weeks trying to figure out which way to go and you brought that to an end. Now I know what to do. This is just the begining for me. I want to mod my car and decided to start from the ground up. Hopfully this summer I can get to the blower and other engin parts. I'll probly have more questions for you later about that stuff. Thanks again for all your help, now its time for me to go shopping.

Chevyguy · 04-06-2001, 11:16 AM

I have been pricing out some struts. The Koni or KYB adjustable are around $150 - 200 each, the premium stock type are around $50. I agree that you probably need the more expensive struts if you plan on lowering the car. For my driver, I just need non wiped struts, so I am going to get some premium Monroes. The rear shocks are not wiped yet so I will do those later this summer.

------------------
Frank W
90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch
88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car

74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 fixing soon, getting a 454 to put in garage
www.chevellepages.com/folingo

Mike 88GT · 04-06-2001, 11:37 AM

ChevyGuy,
I found a KYB packege for the adjustables for 389$, thats 2 shocks and 2 struts. I yet to find the Koni types and price them out. I think I like the idea of being able to adjust my ride control, so I think I will probly go with the adjustables. Thanks for you imput.

Chevyguy · 04-06-2001, 01:34 PM

That is a good price for 2 Koni struts and shocks. You will need the "axle stabilizers", IIRC Koni had those as well.

I just paid $81 for a pair of Monroe Gasmatic plus lifetime warr struts, the KYB cheapos were $65 each but probably not much better than the Monroes and they were not in stock. I'll let you guys know how they ride, their goin in tomorrow

------------------
Frank W
90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch
88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car

74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 fixing soon, getting a 454 to put in garage
www.chevellepages.com/folingo

Mike 88GT · 04-06-2001, 02:06 PM

ChevyGuy,
I think you misunderstood me. The price was for the KYB adjustables. I haven't been able to price out a set of the Koni's yet. Do you know where I could find a good deal on the Knoi's? What are "axle stabilizers", and what do they do? Will I need those just with the Koni's? Or will I need those with any brand I go with?

Chevyguy · 04-06-2001, 02:56 PM

Oh yeah KYB, that is still a good price. I had checked the tire rack, they had prices for struts on the internet. www.tirerack.com The Konis do go for more cake, once I found the tremendous price diff for neato struts I stopped looking.

The rear suspension has a "quadra shock" setup. Two standard rear shocks, and two lateral mounted ones, the Napa guy called them axle stabilizers, so it stuck in my head.

[This message has been edited by Chevyguy (edited 04-06-2001).]

egiap's 5.0 · 04-07-2001, 07:52 AM

Summit sells kyb in adjustable and standard.
When you strut and shocks out replace bushings in control arms. I used energy suspension bushings and welded flat plate in upper to box it. Drove car for first time thursday. What a difference.

------------------
Amsoil dealer, find out about amsoil's preferred customer program, buy at dealer cost.

Mike 88GT · 04-09-2001, 09:57 AM

I think I'm going to go crazy with all these options! I still really don't know the best way to go. What kind of struts, shocks, springs, and do I need anything eles when replacing these? Bushings, sway bars? Can anyone tell me what I will have to have in addional parts to do all these replacments? I don't want to buy my parts and take them to the shop have them installed to find out that I need this or that to finish and end up tieing my car up for weeks. This is getting really confusing to me. Someone please help......

Mike 88GT · 04-09-2001, 10:00 AM

egiap's 5.0,
Where do I find this amsoil? And how do I buy at dealer cost from them?
Did you do all your work yourself? How did you know to weld a box in? Can I get all my stuff needed from this amsoil? Let me know please, thanks.

Skankin · 04-09-2001, 11:06 AM

I suggest scrapping the quad shocks, and getting some decent lower control arms (spherical bearing on one end, urethane on the other).

Doing it right the first time, and having a restricted budget is tough.

If you just use springs to lower the front, the control arms are no longer parallel with the ground... the lower you go, the more angled they get. This lowers the front roll center MUCH more than the centre of mass, so you actually get MORE roll... unless you use stiffer springs. A lot of applications have dropped spindles so that you maintain the factory geometry. Unfortunately, I only know of one aftermarket source for the mustang: http://home1.gte.net/aje/Struts.htm

You could improve the front suspension geometry with a k-member, but that starts getting pricie. Griggs gets great reviews, Kenny Brown's recent design looks awesome, and Maximum motorsports is supposed to be releasing one too...

I consider the CC plates a MUST. Not only for alignment, but the added caster reduces the amount of camber you loose from body roll (this keeps the tire leaning into the corner to counter-act the sidewall flex, and maintain a better contact patch). The added caster & the spherical strut mount GREATLY improve the steering feel as well.

I've heard that the KYB adjustables aren't stiff enough for some... not sure where they fit in, but here's a general list of shocks (increasing in stiffness):

Stock
Cheap upgrade shocks like KYBs or Monroe or Sears specials
Koni Reds (at full stiff)
Tokico Premium
Bilsteins
Tokico Illumina 5 ways
Koni Yellows
Koni DA

Heavier springs require heavier shocks... then you just have to balance ride, performance & budget, and you've got the answer.

I've got the FMS-B springs with KYB's (essentially stock ride, with improved handling). If I put anyone in the back seat, it bottoms out on bumps.

If I did it again, I'd get the FMS-C springs and tokico premiums (let the ride suffer a little for much better handling). That's only $135 + $300, so it's still kinda budget.

I also recommend some stiffer lower control arm bushings for the front. You really feel the little bumps more, but it helps maintain alignment while you're cornering. With such crappy geometry, you really gotta maintain what you have! (and the stock rubber bushings REALLY flex). I got a front end kit from PST, and had the ball joints & tie rod ends done too (your's are probably getting worn). If you don't think you need the whole kit, check out steeda's offset lca bushings... that'll give you a little more caster, and better weight distribution.

Do you have subframe connectors? They're really a must... especially when you start firming up the suspension... the chassis will just start flexing more.

Oh, and a lower chassis brace too. They're cheap, and with the firmer bushings, the turn-in response is VERY nice.

------------------
'89.5 5L LX, hatch, Medium Canyon Red, 155K Km (No winters), 5sp, 3.08, GT interior, a/c, Alpine CD, K/N, Crane PS91, Walbro 190 LPH, March Pulleys, Mr. Gasket 180 therm (HP balanced), 3 core rad, MarkVIII fan, Variflow controller, Polygraphite front bushings, FMS-5300B springs, 6 KYB's, 73mm Calipers, Maximum Motorsport 4pt chassis brace, Western Motorsport Racing's Sub-frame connectors. Re-ringed bottom end, conv. motor mounts, melling oil pump, FMS-C50 waterpump, GT40P heads (blended, polli

DemonGT · 04-09-2001, 12:58 PM

so..im on a budget..and i noticed my rear shocks and quad's(always wondered what those second set of shocks were called)are rusted out and shot pretty much..what kind of shocks and struts should i get..im looking for something that handles mostly like stock(i think even stock it handles awsome although i have nothing to compare to sept my parents 99 tahoe)i want it to handle like stock but keep my rear tires planted...also im looken at the BBK lowering springs...what do you guys suggest?

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'91 GT,91K,T-5,air silencer removed,racing clutch(previous owner put in so dont know what kind),K&N air filter,Aiwa deck,power acoustic amp,2 12" pianeers,Mac long tubes,Cat-back,off road H,FMS 9mm wires

Future Mods:3.73's,Pro 5.0,Shifter knob,E303 cam,cobra intake,76mm MAF,70mm tb
ICQ#35670781

Mike 88GT · 04-10-2001, 09:26 AM

Skankin,
Thank you so much for all your advice! It was greatly needed. I almost just through my hands up with all the options I have in doing this and went with the KYB adjustables. Its nice to get advice from what sounds like a true mechanic. I really don't know what I'm doing here as far as needing aditional parts to complete my job. What do you think about going with an adjustable? I will probly only lower the car an inch. I've been thinking about the Eibach Pro kit for lowering, I've been told there the best. Yes? I guess I need to read up on caster and camber beings I know nothing about them. But thanks agian for you advice. If you have any more you can e-mail me too.

Skankin · 04-10-2001, 10:28 AM

He he he... actually, my father's the mechanic, I'm just passionate about my car ;-)

I remember seeing a post that said the KYB's medium setting was the same as the KYB non-adjust (not sure how reliable the source was)... so that gives you some idea. You can get all 4 Tokico premium non-adjust for $275, so I wouldn't pay much more than that for the KYB adjustables (although it would be nice to tune for comfort).

I don't know the eibach spring rates, but people seem to be happy with them. The FMS5300C springs are similar, and a little cheaper.

When you're in a turn, weight gets transfered to the outside, and the sidewall of the tire flexes... and as you roll onto the side of the tire, your contact patch decreases (and you loose grip).

Camber is simply putting the tire at an angle so that the contact patch becomes flat when the sidewall flexes. Short-long arm/double wishbone suspensions angle the tire MORE as they are compressed (which is what you want). These cars typically run with slightly +ve camber (top leaning out), and they go -ve as they are compressed (so it's relatively flat with brake dive).

The modified strut setup actually looses camber (light weight, cheap production, bad for handling). I believe the stock mustang looses more than 1 deg per inch of compression. This is why the autocrossers use -2 to -3 degrees and very high spring rates. The high spring rate also keeps the inside front tire down (since the body roll & roll bar try to pull it up).

I was running -1.2 deg camber, mostly highway, and saw a little inside tire wear... I think about -1 deg is good for street use.

Caster: I'm not sure why Ford didn't give them a more appropriate amount... probably the crappy power assist steering & ps pump. Generally, you wanna try and get as much as you can with on the mustang.

Mike 88GT · 04-10-2001, 03:50 PM

Skankin,
Thank you again for your imput. I think I will probly wait on lowering my car now and spend the money on better struts and shocks. That way I can see if I really need to lower it. Its a GT and already pretty low with the ground efxs. If I don't lower it. Will I still need caster and camber plates? I do plan on getting a rebuild kit for the bushings, I hear that engergy suspension has a good complete kit from SummitRacing. I also think I will go with the Tokico's beings Steeda uses them on there race cars. I was thinking adjustables for the front and maybe Premium for the rear, will that work? One more qusetion, what do you think about going with air adjustable rear shocks? The kind that uses air preasure to raise and lower just by using an air hose to fill. Along with the Tokico adjustables struts. I know, I know, so many questions. But thanks for all your help.

Mike 88GT · 04-10-2001, 03:55 PM

Skankin,
Thank you again for your imput. I think I will probly wait on lowering my car now and spend the money on better struts and shocks. That way I can see if I really need to lower it. Its a GT and already pretty low with the ground efxs. If I don't lower it. Will I still need caster and camber plates? I do plan on getting a rebuild kit for the bushings, I hear that engergy suspension has a good complete kit from SummitRacing. I also think I will go with the Tokico's beings Steeda uses them on there race cars. I was thinking adjustables for the front and maybe Premium for the rear, will that work? One more qusetion, what do you think about going with air adjustable rear shocks? The kind that uses air preasure to raise and lower just by using an air hose to fill. Along with the Tokico adjustables struts. I know, I know, so many questions. But thanks for all your help.

04-05-2001, 03:24 PM	#1
Mike 88GT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hutchinson, MN Posts: 36	Shock&Struts, thats the question I have been looking for a long time on which name brand and type of shocks and struts to get. I still don't know which way to go. I think I like the idea of having adjustables, but are they nessary? I plan on lowering my 88'GT no more than 2". Is there a good lowering number to stick with? Should I go 1,1.5 or 2"'s? And should I lower the car the same time I replace the shocks and struts? Or can I do it later? I'm working with a short budget here, but I want to do it right the first time too. What should I do and whats a good shock/strut to go with?

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04-05-2001, 04:12 PM	#2
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	All good questions and now moved to the proper forum - Windsor Power - for possible responses. ------------------ Mr. 5.0 Messageboard Administrator

04-06-2001, 08:52 AM	#3
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	I would wait until you have everything before installing it. It's better to do it all at once than have to tear it down over and over. Get new spring isolators and maybe even do the poly bushings while you have the front apart. Also get a new poly sway bar link. For a lowered car I would get adjustables, but you probably don't need them. Also, if you drop the car 2" you will need caster/camber plates to get the camber back inline. The best way to go on a tight budget is buy some struts and shocks first. If you get some good adjustables that will improve your handling a little. You will just have to unbolt them again when you do springs. ------------------ ICQ# 42269241 Indiana Stangers Association Buy your parts here [This message has been edited by 2FastLX (edited 04-06-2001).]

04-06-2001, 09:53 AM	#4
Mike 88GT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hutchinson, MN Posts: 36	2fastLX, Thanks for the responce. I have a few more questions for ya. I've been told that KYB's are a good factory replacment set up, I want alittle better than that. How are the KYB adjustables? Do you think they would work with what I want to do? They seem to be in my price range. And should I lower my car only 1 1/2"? Whats a good lowering number that will improve my handling? Would I still need caster/camber plates if I do?(I don't really know what those are, I'm learning as I go here and am far from being a mechanic) And if I replace the struts and shocks first, then later lower the car later, will I need another front end alignment? If I don't need the adjustables I could spend the money on better shocks/struts, do you have any name brands in mind? Or should I stay with adjustables?(any name brands you know are good but in resonabnle price?) Thanks ALOT for all your help, I need it.

04-06-2001, 10:40 AM	#5
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	You may have to get caster/camber plates for 1.5" drop too. You won't know for sure if you need them until you lower the car and take it in for an alignment. Caster/Camber plates attach at the top of the struts and allow for more camber adjustment which is the amount the tires lean in at the top. This is a standard adjustment on all cars, the c/c plates just give you more adjustment which is needed when you lower your car. They also provide caster adjustment which is not possible to adjust on the stock setup. Caster is the front to back angle of the struts. You know how a chopper (bike with long forks on the front) handles? The forks are angled way out and it feels like the handlebars want to stay in the center position when you try to turn. That is caster angle. You don't really need adjustables, but I'd save the extra moiney for them personally. I went with Koni's because I have heard nothing but good things about them and they are guaranteed for life (even on a lowered vehicle). BTW, I couldn't be happier with my decision to get Koni stuff. I've heard KYB adjustables are good enough for a lowered vehicle, so you'll probably be ok with them and save a little cash. The higher end stuff would be Koni's, Bilsteins, or Tokico's. All very nice stuff. You will have to have an alignment after installing springs. That's why I recommended doing it all at once, plus it'll save you a lot of repetative work. ------------------ ICQ# 42269241 Indiana Stangers Association Buy your parts here [This message has been edited by 2FastLX (edited 04-06-2001).]

04-06-2001, 11:02 AM	#6
Mike 88GT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hutchinson, MN Posts: 36	2fastLX, Damn, you hit it right on the head. You answerd everything I needed to know. I thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been stressing for about two weeks trying to figure out which way to go and you brought that to an end. Now I know what to do. This is just the begining for me. I want to mod my car and decided to start from the ground up. Hopfully this summer I can get to the blower and other engin parts. I'll probly have more questions for you later about that stuff. Thanks again for all your help, now its time for me to go shopping.

04-06-2001, 11:16 AM	#7
Chevyguy Backyard Mechanic/Chemist Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Acton MA USA Posts: 435	I have been pricing out some struts. The Koni or KYB adjustable are around $150 - 200 each, the premium stock type are around $50. I agree that you probably need the more expensive struts if you plan on lowering the car. For my driver, I just need non wiped struts, so I am going to get some premium Monroes. The rear shocks are not wiped yet so I will do those later this summer. ------------------ Frank W 90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch 88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car 74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 fixing soon, getting a 454 to put in garage www.chevellepages.com/folingo

04-06-2001, 11:37 AM	#8
Mike 88GT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hutchinson, MN Posts: 36	ChevyGuy, I found a KYB packege for the adjustables for 389$, thats 2 shocks and 2 struts. I yet to find the Koni types and price them out. I think I like the idea of being able to adjust my ride control, so I think I will probly go with the adjustables. Thanks for you imput.

04-06-2001, 01:34 PM	#9
Chevyguy Backyard Mechanic/Chemist Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Acton MA USA Posts: 435	That is a good price for 2 Koni struts and shocks. You will need the "axle stabilizers", IIRC Koni had those as well. I just paid $81 for a pair of Monroe Gasmatic plus lifetime warr struts, the KYB cheapos were $65 each but probably not much better than the Monroes and they were not in stock. I'll let you guys know how they ride, their goin in tomorrow ------------------ Frank W 90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch 88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car 74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 fixing soon, getting a 454 to put in garage www.chevellepages.com/folingo

04-06-2001, 02:06 PM	#10
Mike 88GT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hutchinson, MN Posts: 36	ChevyGuy, I think you misunderstood me. The price was for the KYB adjustables. I haven't been able to price out a set of the Koni's yet. Do you know where I could find a good deal on the Knoi's? What are "axle stabilizers", and what do they do? Will I need those just with the Koni's? Or will I need those with any brand I go with?

04-06-2001, 02:56 PM	#11
Chevyguy Backyard Mechanic/Chemist Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Acton MA USA Posts: 435	Oh yeah KYB, that is still a good price. I had checked the tire rack, they had prices for struts on the internet. www.tirerack.com The Konis do go for more cake, once I found the tremendous price diff for neato struts I stopped looking. The rear suspension has a "quadra shock" setup. Two standard rear shocks, and two lateral mounted ones, the Napa guy called them axle stabilizers, so it stuck in my head. [This message has been edited by Chevyguy (edited 04-06-2001).]

04-07-2001, 07:52 AM	#12
egiap's 5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Mansfield, OH. Posts: 113	Summit sells kyb in adjustable and standard. When you strut and shocks out replace bushings in control arms. I used energy suspension bushings and welded flat plate in upper to box it. Drove car for first time thursday. What a difference. ------------------ Amsoil dealer, find out about amsoil's preferred customer program, buy at dealer cost.

04-09-2001, 09:57 AM	#13
Mike 88GT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hutchinson, MN Posts: 36	I think I'm going to go crazy with all these options! I still really don't know the best way to go. What kind of struts, shocks, springs, and do I need anything eles when replacing these? Bushings, sway bars? Can anyone tell me what I will have to have in addional parts to do all these replacments? I don't want to buy my parts and take them to the shop have them installed to find out that I need this or that to finish and end up tieing my car up for weeks. This is getting really confusing to me. Someone please help......

04-09-2001, 10:00 AM	#14
Mike 88GT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hutchinson, MN Posts: 36	egiap's 5.0, Where do I find this amsoil? And how do I buy at dealer cost from them? Did you do all your work yourself? How did you know to weld a box in? Can I get all my stuff needed from this amsoil? Let me know please, thanks.

04-09-2001, 11:06 AM	#15
Skankin Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,349	I suggest scrapping the quad shocks, and getting some decent lower control arms (spherical bearing on one end, urethane on the other). Doing it right the first time, and having a restricted budget is tough. If you just use springs to lower the front, the control arms are no longer parallel with the ground... the lower you go, the more angled they get. This lowers the front roll center MUCH more than the centre of mass, so you actually get MORE roll... unless you use stiffer springs. A lot of applications have dropped spindles so that you maintain the factory geometry. Unfortunately, I only know of one aftermarket source for the mustang: http://home1.gte.net/aje/Struts.htm You could improve the front suspension geometry with a k-member, but that starts getting pricie. Griggs gets great reviews, Kenny Brown's recent design looks awesome, and Maximum motorsports is supposed to be releasing one too... I consider the CC plates a MUST. Not only for alignment, but the added caster reduces the amount of camber you loose from body roll (this keeps the tire leaning into the corner to counter-act the sidewall flex, and maintain a better contact patch). The added caster & the spherical strut mount GREATLY improve the steering feel as well. I've heard that the KYB adjustables aren't stiff enough for some... not sure where they fit in, but here's a general list of shocks (increasing in stiffness): Stock Cheap upgrade shocks like KYBs or Monroe or Sears specials Koni Reds (at full stiff) Tokico Premium Bilsteins Tokico Illumina 5 ways Koni Yellows Koni DA Heavier springs require heavier shocks... then you just have to balance ride, performance & budget, and you've got the answer. I've got the FMS-B springs with KYB's (essentially stock ride, with improved handling). If I put anyone in the back seat, it bottoms out on bumps. If I did it again, I'd get the FMS-C springs and tokico premiums (let the ride suffer a little for much better handling). That's only $135 + $300, so it's still kinda budget. I also recommend some stiffer lower control arm bushings for the front. You really feel the little bumps more, but it helps maintain alignment while you're cornering. With such crappy geometry, you really gotta maintain what you have! (and the stock rubber bushings REALLY flex). I got a front end kit from PST, and had the ball joints & tie rod ends done too (your's are probably getting worn). If you don't think you need the whole kit, check out steeda's offset lca bushings... that'll give you a little more caster, and better weight distribution. Do you have subframe connectors? They're really a must... especially when you start firming up the suspension... the chassis will just start flexing more. Oh, and a lower chassis brace too. They're cheap, and with the firmer bushings, the turn-in response is VERY nice. ------------------ '89.5 5L LX, hatch, Medium Canyon Red, 155K Km (No winters), 5sp, 3.08, GT interior, a/c, Alpine CD, K/N, Crane PS91, Walbro 190 LPH, March Pulleys, Mr. Gasket 180 therm (HP balanced), 3 core rad, MarkVIII fan, Variflow controller, Polygraphite front bushings, FMS-5300B springs, 6 KYB's, 73mm Calipers, Maximum Motorsport 4pt chassis brace, Western Motorsport Racing's Sub-frame connectors. Re-ringed bottom end, conv. motor mounts, melling oil pump, FMS-C50 waterpump, GT40P heads (blended, polli

04-09-2001, 12:58 PM	#16
DemonGT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 879	so..im on a budget..and i noticed my rear shocks and quad's(always wondered what those second set of shocks were called)are rusted out and shot pretty much..what kind of shocks and struts should i get..im looking for something that handles mostly like stock(i think even stock it handles awsome although i have nothing to compare to sept my parents 99 tahoe)i want it to handle like stock but keep my rear tires planted...also im looken at the BBK lowering springs...what do you guys suggest? ------------------ '91 GT,91K,T-5,air silencer removed,racing clutch(previous owner put in so dont know what kind),K&N air filter,Aiwa deck,power acoustic amp,2 12" pianeers,Mac long tubes,Cat-back,off road H,FMS 9mm wires Future Mods:3.73's,Pro 5.0,Shifter knob,E303 cam,cobra intake,76mm MAF,70mm tb ICQ#35670781

04-10-2001, 09:26 AM	#17
Mike 88GT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hutchinson, MN Posts: 36	Skankin, Thank you so much for all your advice! It was greatly needed. I almost just through my hands up with all the options I have in doing this and went with the KYB adjustables. Its nice to get advice from what sounds like a true mechanic. I really don't know what I'm doing here as far as needing aditional parts to complete my job. What do you think about going with an adjustable? I will probly only lower the car an inch. I've been thinking about the Eibach Pro kit for lowering, I've been told there the best. Yes? I guess I need to read up on caster and camber beings I know nothing about them. But thanks agian for you advice. If you have any more you can e-mail me too.

04-10-2001, 10:28 AM	#18
Skankin Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,349	He he he... actually, my father's the mechanic, I'm just passionate about my car ;-) I remember seeing a post that said the KYB's medium setting was the same as the KYB non-adjust (not sure how reliable the source was)... so that gives you some idea. You can get all 4 Tokico premium non-adjust for $275, so I wouldn't pay much more than that for the KYB adjustables (although it would be nice to tune for comfort). I don't know the eibach spring rates, but people seem to be happy with them. The FMS5300C springs are similar, and a little cheaper. When you're in a turn, weight gets transfered to the outside, and the sidewall of the tire flexes... and as you roll onto the side of the tire, your contact patch decreases (and you loose grip). Camber is simply putting the tire at an angle so that the contact patch becomes flat when the sidewall flexes. Short-long arm/double wishbone suspensions angle the tire MORE as they are compressed (which is what you want). These cars typically run with slightly +ve camber (top leaning out), and they go -ve as they are compressed (so it's relatively flat with brake dive). The modified strut setup actually looses camber (light weight, cheap production, bad for handling). I believe the stock mustang looses more than 1 deg per inch of compression. This is why the autocrossers use -2 to -3 degrees and very high spring rates. The high spring rate also keeps the inside front tire down (since the body roll & roll bar try to pull it up). I was running -1.2 deg camber, mostly highway, and saw a little inside tire wear... I think about -1 deg is good for street use. Caster: I'm not sure why Ford didn't give them a more appropriate amount... probably the crappy power assist steering & ps pump. Generally, you wanna try and get as much as you can with on the mustang.

04-10-2001, 03:50 PM	#19
Mike 88GT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hutchinson, MN Posts: 36	Skankin, Thank you again for your imput. I think I will probly wait on lowering my car now and spend the money on better struts and shocks. That way I can see if I really need to lower it. Its a GT and already pretty low with the ground efxs. If I don't lower it. Will I still need caster and camber plates? I do plan on getting a rebuild kit for the bushings, I hear that engergy suspension has a good complete kit from SummitRacing. I also think I will go with the Tokico's beings Steeda uses them on there race cars. I was thinking adjustables for the front and maybe Premium for the rear, will that work? One more qusetion, what do you think about going with air adjustable rear shocks? The kind that uses air preasure to raise and lower just by using an air hose to fill. Along with the Tokico adjustables struts. I know, I know, so many questions. But thanks for all your help.

04-10-2001, 03:55 PM	#20
Mike 88GT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Hutchinson, MN Posts: 36	Skankin, Thank you again for your imput. I think I will probly wait on lowering my car now and spend the money on better struts and shocks. That way I can see if I really need to lower it. Its a GT and already pretty low with the ground efxs. If I don't lower it. Will I still need caster and camber plates? I do plan on getting a rebuild kit for the bushings, I hear that engergy suspension has a good complete kit from SummitRacing. I also think I will go with the Tokico's beings Steeda uses them on there race cars. I was thinking adjustables for the front and maybe Premium for the rear, will that work? One more qusetion, what do you think about going with air adjustable rear shocks? The kind that uses air preasure to raise and lower just by using an air hose to fill. Along with the Tokico adjustables struts. I know, I know, so many questions. But thanks for all your help.