Life part 2

[Mr 5 0]

Originally posted by bigwhitecobra :

I am only stating that there are other possibilities that what is quoted in the Bible. It is my theory that the Bible, which may have started out being the word of God, is now the work of MAN. No more no less. Does God exist? Without hessitation, YES. Did he create the heavens and earth? Again, YES. Did His son walk the earth and heal peple? YES. Is the Bible the absolute word of God? Not by a long shot.

You are wrong as you can be. As I've stated to you before: the very knowledge of God and Jesus you claim to believe in came to you from the bible. Whether you first heard about God and Jesus from your parents, a minister, a friend or a tract or book, all knowlege we have today of God and Christ came from the bible. You cannnot deny this with any credibility.

For man to write the Bible, whether or not it was inspired by God, is inherently flawed. We are given Free Will. God can not override Free Will, or His creation is Flawed. No matter how much you preach the Bible to be true, it is bound by human nature to be flawed, or wrong. If even one word was added that is not the word of God, then it is no longer true. And I am sure that it has more than one word added to it for people to better understand it. But once you add one word to it, what's another, or another, or another. Soon you have what may have started out being the word of God, but is now the work of man.

Same faulty premise I shot down long before with the fact that God is omnipotent - all powerful - and did not allow mortal men to lie about him and call it 'God's Word'. You apparently assume an 'absent God' that simply watches mankind from heaven, like we would watch ants in an ant farm, and that He has no hand in our lives at all. Not so. His Word is true because He kept it that way. Your mistrust of the God you claim to believe in is rather sad.

Take for instance man's using only the parts of the Bible that he agrees with. No man shall lay with another man. Ok, fair enough. What about the verses that say we should Stone to death any woman that is found to be, basically, a hooker? What about the passage that states we are to Stone to death the children that do not obey thier parents? What do you say to that? Why do we not practice that? Because we are civilized? Or, is is because of the statement, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."? Or is it because we know that that is cruel, and we just plain don't like that part? Or is it because we know deep down inside that the Bible is full of bogus rules, meant to control the masses?

Your lack of understanding of scripture is painful to see manifested in these childish misinterpretations that you obviously cannot understand at all. Read and learn.

To answer your question: One of the verses you quote is from Leviticus 20, verse 13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. This verse was an instruction for man not to have sex ('lie with') another man. Sodomy. Try to understand that in the early centuries of mankinds existence God used His prophets to instruct the Jews, His chosen people, how to survive and prosper. This was to strengthen the race and to help it prosper but also to preserve the line for Jesus to descend from. The entire Old Testament was a prelude to the coming of Jesus. The line of David had to be kept pure...and it was. Sodomy would have weakened the lineage, as would have intermarriage. They were all prohibited. Stoning was an accepted manner of capital punishment in those days and for many centuries following, right into the time of Jesus. Harsh punishment was necessary to keep the Jews morally clean and to set moral and 'legal' standards, all from God, not man. It all had a purpose. God's purpose.

What you totally fail to comprehend is that when Jesus came to earth as a man and died for our sins, the 'old covenent' was finished and set aside. Jesus fulfilled all of the Old Testament Law because He was perfect in every way; mind, body and spirit. Jesus said this more than once. He didn't come to negate the OT law, but to fulfill it. He did so, on the cross. Now, as Christians, we live under the New Covenent, based on Jesus' summation of the Ten Commandents as 'To love your God with all your heart, mind and soul" and to 'Love your neighbor as yourself". 'Neighbor' meaning your fellow man. Everyone. Stoning another for some infraction is not necessary for those who love Christ and accept Him as Savior. The obvious necessity to not commit sodomy or to obey your parents is inherent in Jesus life and words...all recorded in the bible - and nowhere else. Your characterization of the bible as full of 'bogus rules meant to control the masses' is right out of the atheists playbook used to attack scripture. How sad that you take the name of Christ and spit on His holy Word in the same breath. How very sad.

Does the Bible say anything about a woman lying with another woman? I haven't found that verse yet. So, as of now, I have to believe that being homosexual is only ok if you are a woman....something the men of this world would love. If there is a verse that exists, I will gladly retract my last statement, but as I have said, I haven't found it yet.

The New Testament instructs believers to be pure and sexually undefiled and it mentions homosexuality as a sin. That makes the case against lesbianism quite clearly. Jesus didn't mention drug use, either, but the admonition against allowing anything to 'master you' alludes to all forms of addiction, including drugs. Breaking the law is also forbidden unless that law goes against bibical instruction. Wake up and actually read and try to understand the bible, it's context and it's purpose. It isn't about 'controlling' you, it's about God's love for you and how to live a fruitful, happy life. How tragic that you adopt the atheist view of God's Word and yet still prattle on about being a 'Christian'.

I believe in God and Jesus Christ. I believe that Jesus walked the Earth and was the Great Teacher. Why? Because so much has been written about Him. Not just biblically. The Romans wrote about His crusifiction. So he did die the way that has been described in books from that time period. NOT just the Bible.

"Great Teacher"? What an insult to the Son of God! Jesus was hardly written about by the Romans and many people convicted of crimes against the state were crucified in that period of history, not only Jesus. It was fairly common. Jesus was either who He said He was - God incarnate - or a total fraud and liar and certainly not someone to be worshipped. Make a choice - but can the 'great teacher' nonsense that insults His divinity.

Did Noah really gather 2 of every lliving creature? We are meant to believe he did, right? Think of the logistics involved with that. Did Noah go from continant to continant, gathering 2 of everything in the world? Did he make it to Antartica? What about Greenland, Iceland, New Zealand, Austraila, New Hamshire, Norway, every island in all the oceans, England, Wales, etc.? After Gathering them, did he get them all back to where they came from? Or is there a simpler explaination? I am not a historian, so I'll leave that to them, but the point still stands.

Ignorance on stilts, again. Do you ever get embarrassed at your own lack of bibical knowledge when you try to deny the truth of scripture? Apparently not. You are looking at scripture like a child. Please, grow up, spiritually. Your 'point' is naive. First, this was in the very earliest part of earth existence. God supervised the entire operation. It had never rained on earth before this period. Water came from mists and springs, not the clouds. Noah had no idea what a boat (ark) was (they didn't exist) and no one had ever seen rain. Noah trusted God. He built the ark and God provided for all the living things to come aboard, not Noah. Noah was God's instrument, just as we are , today, when we choose to serve Him, as Noah did. Again, you try to place all kinds of human restrictions on an omnipotent God, which is why you can't understand the meaning of scripture. God is not bound - then or now - by what limits mankind. Space and time do not exist as barriers for God...He created them.

Did Moses ever live? Show me one shred of evidence outside the Bible. He wandered the desert for 40 years, right? Show me some artifacts from that wandering. Surely we could find some, we're talking about thousands of people walking around the desert. I'm sure that they left a little bit behind them somewhere.

You really make a good atheist. You have all the talking points down, pat. Moses lived over three thousand years ago. Yet you demand some kind of proof that he existed? Why? The Jews 40 years in the desert - a punishment from God - also occured over 3,000 years ago. The sands cover up things in hours. Yet you want physical proof from over 3,000 years ago? Whta makes you think anything would exist from that time the Jews spend on the desert sands? To demand some kind of concrete 'proof' of that event is silly, no more than a lot of historical figures lives can be proved today with any validity. Most of what we know from very ancient history is based on writings of the time, which we can not ever 'prove' are valid. Christianity is based on faith. It always has been. If Moses, Jesus and everything in scripture were easily proven - most of the world would be Christian. That would not be faith, which is what God wants. Obviously, He doesn't receive much of it from you. Your loss, not His.

You keep saying that you feel sorry for me. Don't. I know in my heart that God does in fact exist. I know in my heart that in fact Jesus does exist. I also know in my heart that the Bible is, at best man's attempt to speak for God. Even in the Bible it says that we can not know God. How can you tell me that the Bible, is the Word of God, if we can not know Him, His plans, or His ideas? You, along with millions of others, have been corrupted by the Bible. You, my friend, are one of the flock that has been decieved. Have you ever thought that just maybe the Bible was inspire by Satan? Think about it for a split second before you have a massive brain hemorage. Even the Good Book tells you that the Devil is the most beautiful thing in creation. He is more attractive to man than anything man has ever encountered. What better way to decieve man than with the supposed Word of God? Now, I'm not saying that the Bible is Satan's work. But I am saying that if man changed one word, or exaggerated one story, it is now as useless as a football bat. And what better target to corrupt man, that with God's own word?

I was mistaken. You are beyond sad, you are downright tragic in your assumptions and your mocking of God's Word. You know absolutely nothing of the God and Jesus you so piously claim to 'believe in your heart' except from what the bible has told us...you included. That's what you totally fail to grasp here. You spit at scripture then claim to believe what scripture tells you in a few cases (God exists, Jesus is Savior). That's absurd. If most of the bible is the corrupted, lying words of evil men, as you seem to believe, maybe even from Satan, that clever rascal, then how can you accept one word of it? It's either a total fabrication or it's the inspired Word of God. Pick one - but don't pretend to be some kind of Christian 'believer' when the only source you have for knowing anything about God in the first place was - and is - the bible...and you deny the bible's claims to absolute truth. You are much confused and bibically illiterate, to boot. As I said: tragic.

Just think about it, for longer than the time it takes you to get all huffy and puffy. Actually let this thought wander around in you head, pray about it, and listen to your heart. Jesus lives in your heart, right? Well, maybe he has some thoughts for you. Who knows?

Nice try at condescension but it ignores the fact that most of what you are trying to justify here regarding your rejection of the bible is identical to that of every atheist I've every dealt with. Exactly the same. The only reason I've bothered to exchage messages with you is because you keep claiming to 'believe' in God and Christ as Savior. I attributted most of your sometimes incomprehensible statements to bibical ignorance. There is a lot of that going around. However, at this point I have come to other conclusions. You are either attempting to reject scripture because it sets moral absolutes that you don't like or want to be held to (very common) and/or you are really an atheist, playing games here. I suspect that you are more likely just a young guy that wants to cling to his 'belief' in God and Jesus and thinks he can do so while rejecting the only real source for his original belief to begin with. No bible - no rules - no morality - no pesky 'right and wrong' to deal with. Do as you please. God loves everybody, yada, yada, yada. Oh, you can still claim to 'believe' in God and His Son, Jesus, then disobey Him at will because, you see, the bible is a lie. Maybe even from SATAN! Yeah, right. Nice try at kidding yourself but it fails utterly with me, friend.

Go do as you please. I'm not your father or a minister and I won't keep this pointless exchange of messages going as I understand where you right now and I have made my case. Of course, I made it under the assumption I was corresponding with a Christian, not someone who just gives God lip-service and then acts and lives as an atheist. I don't bother to argue with atheists because, like you, they reject the bible out of hand, and so, since my faith and all of Christianity is based on the bible, I have nowhere to go, figuratively or literally, with the atheist. Whatever is in your heart, at this point, I've arrived at the same juncture with you. As you reject the bible as the infallible Word of God, written by men but inspired by God, we no longer have anything to talk about, other than you attempting to justify your rather atheist-like 'belief'. I've read about enough of that so I now part company with you on this overlong thread and wish you, not only well, but that you'll someday realize the folly of your non-belief and rejection of God's Word and come back to real, bible-based faith in the God who loved you enough to send His son to die for you....just as we learned from the bible.