351????

[FroMack]

Ok, I have an 1989 LX Notchback. I want to tear out my stock 302 engine and install a 351 5.8L engine. Does anyone know of a good site that will give me an idea of what it would cost to purchase the engine.Also, i would like to know what kind of manual transmission i should switch too, and if anyone has taken this task on before I would like to know what the total cost of the project was.

Thanx

Tom

[FroMack]

Is there anyone at all out there that can help me?????

[MiracleMax]

New, used, what? Try your search engine to look up sites that deal with FRPP. The 351 crate motors from Ford look kinda tasty? and are resonably priced. New I would say a long block engine would run you about 4000.00 dollars? But for about 500.00 more you could build a good 302 stroker thast could easily best the new crate motor in power using your block as a foundation.

[FroMack]

I want a new engine. And I am looking for an high Horse Power engine that is reliable.
Im not sure that i could get a 10 second run out of a 302 and have the engine last a long time.

[FroMack]

Oh ya, what is FRPP??

[white00GT]

FRP=Ford Racing

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2000 Mustang GT

[FroMack]

I want and engine that will get up and go when i want it to. I want Loud Exhaust with that lumpy cam sound.
i just assume that a 351 would handle 350 HP alot better than a 302
having a 10-11 second car will take alot more than just engine i know that, and i dont plan on racing it all that much, but i want to know my car car if i wanted it too.

[Carbo96]

Try this link:
http://www.mustangworks.com/articles...n/351swap.html

There's lots of good info in this article.

[LX XLR8R]

Originally posted by FroMack:
I want and engine that will get up and go when i want it to. I want Loud Exhaust with that lumpy cam sound.
i just assume that a 351 would handle 350 HP alot better than a 302
having a 10-11 second car will take alot more than just engine i know that, and i dont plan on racing it all that much, but i want to know my car car if i wanted it too.

stock block can handle 350hp without a sweat..stock is good for 550 hp daily or i seen people run 650 for short amounts..
BTW 350hp is not ganna get you into the 10's..you would need appox 500 to get into the 10's totally depending on the car



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1987 black notch(ex 4 banger)
DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..
AIM=onesillynotch

[FroMack]

Ya, I am just dreamin about the 10 second thing. I doubt my car will ever make it there. Thanx for all the help ppl.

Tom aka. FroMack

If you want good power, go with the 351W. I've never seen a stroker 347 that can handle 400+ HP without the use of expensive supers. The 351 has much more torque and the 2 blt bottom end is stronger than a 2blt 347. The problem I'm having is finding the right tried and true EFI setup that will pass emissions.

[FroMack]

I think i am just gonna go with the 351. now i need to know a what kind of transmission i should use. I want a 6 speed trans. if i swap my trans am i gonna have to change the drive shaft and the stock rear end?

[NO SLO PK]

Yes, I'm 99% certain you'll need a shortened driveshaft with a 6 spd., as well as a new clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, bellhousing, shifter, throwout bearing, etc. All I can say is a 6 speed conversion is gonna cost $$$$. I was quoted a discounted price of $2,900 for parts only.

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'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

[FroMack]

Damn, maybe i wont be going 6 speed then.
That is alot of money.
I went to a performance shop today and got everything priced out and the parts alone r worth more than my car.
lol!!!

[Unit 5302]

Hmmm... I'm wondering why in the hell a 351W is going to have "much more" torque than a 347 stroker. Same bore, nearly identical stroke. They are nearly the same engine.

To get the same hp out of the engine, the same mods need to be made.

Where am I going wrong? I'm thinking maybe somebody doesn't know what they are talking about?

Furthermore, where in the hell have you seen a supercharged 347? What kind of moron would do that? The 347 is a bomb waiting to go off with a charger on it. The biggest stroker that should ever be supercharged is the 331. There are a couple members on this board right now looking to get over 400hp with their 347 strokers, and at least one with it already. I don't know where you're pulling your numbers stroker, but they seem to be misleading.

[This message has been edited by Unit 5302 (edited 03-07-2001).]

[NO SLO PK]

Hey Unit...the Windsor has a notably superior rod ratio compared to the 347...that helps the 351 make more torque. How much more? I guess that's open for debate as I'm sure it depends on the configuration.

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'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

[This message has been edited by NO SLO PK (edited 03-07-2001).]

[MiracleMax]

That depends with the R/S ratio! A long rod motor isn't nessecarily the ideal combination. Engines that feature short rod to stroke ratio's tend to be able to utilize large heads better and operate more comfortably on pump gas with higher compression ratio's. Like you say however it all depends on the combo? As for Unit's statement about a 347 vs. a 351 making about the same torque, he's essentially correct. If each engine is given a comparable intake and exhaust set-up (air valve, cam, heads, headers, etc). Then except for the spare difference in overall size (and R/S ratio as you indicated creating some frictional difference), they should make about the same power. Where each might excel?

The 351 will definitely be a better high RPM motor by virtue of its better R/S ratio. It also can make use of slightly smaller intake ports, it will also last longer. The flip side; weight penalty, increased sensitivity to high compression, better suited to high octane fuels.

The 347 actually is a better street motor due to its reduced sensitivity to high compression, better sutied to low octane fuels, more tolerant of larger heads (and by extension possibly over camming), short R/S motors also tend to be volumetrically more efficient because the piston is travelling faster down the bore creating a intially stronger vaccum signal. and also the lighter and more compact dimensions. The flip side; reduced longevity, not quite as good in high rpm performance, can't take advantage of the slow burn rate of high octane fuel (which helps at high engine speeds, since the fuel burns slower helping to maintain the pressure exerted on the piston)

However, what somebody really needs to look at is the intended usage, and what your goals are. Personally I find the 347 a more attractive alternative to a 351 from a dispalcement point alone, maybe even upto 370 cubic inches which is achiveable with the siamese bore blocks available (4.155 x 3.40), which can swell to 377 cid at the extreme (using a 3.5 inch stroke) all mashed down into a block the size of a 302. Since this is the upper limit (at this time ) Then anything larger is 351 territory.

Chevy's much vaunted 454 has an R/S of 1.53:1

The 347 by contrast has an R/S of 1.58:1 and only trails behind chevy's 350 which is 1.63:1, by .05 and everybody here with a brand x buddy has heard without fail countless times how much better the chevy stuff is than the ford stuff. How much tougher it is blah, blah, blah!

So to me the R/S issue is pretty much a moot topic and is really just a nit picking issue when trying to justify the 351 over the 302 based engines. Probably what makes a bigger difference in longevity is the location of the pison pin in relation to the ring lands. Push the pin up into the oil control ring and you'll have some oil control problems here (and down the road combined with the higher rate of wear).

And on the case of using a 331 as the max size for a SC'd engine, Eh, maybe on a stock 5.0 block. they tend to be on the fragile side of things, but an SC'ed 347 using an R302 or A4 block (and proabably even the new sportsman block) I don't think there would be a problem. If you build a 347 with a stock cast iron crank that is offset ground, using factory armasteel rods (which are cast) and then using some off the shelf pisotn that happend to fit, then your bound to have problems. Change this to a steel crank, forged rods, and purpose designed pistons then its not so much of a problem.

[NO SLO PK]

Hey MM, I gotta disagree. I recall a dyno test in MM&FF back in 93 or 94 where they compared long rod motors to their stock counterparts. In the article, the long rod motors made more torque and hp than those of standard rod length. Although I don't recall the specifics of the engines used in the test, they were definitely street motors running on pump gas without excessive camming/port work, etc.

Regarding that "legendary 454", it BETTER be making some decent torque...after all, it's got 454 cubes for crying out loud. What it lacks in rod ratio it makes up for in size.

You never hear anyone complaining that a rod ratio is too high, but the 347 is criticized quite often for having a poor rod ratio. Just saying maybe there's something there.

Btw, I totally agree that a 347 IS compatible with forced induction. Like you say, it just costs $$$ to assemble it with the necessary parts.

L8r

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'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

[This message has been edited by NO SLO PK (edited 03-08-2001).]

[Unit 5302]

Probably what makes a bigger difference in longevity is the location of the pison pin in relation to the ring lands. Push the pin up into the oil control ring and you'll have some oil control problems here (and down the road combined with the higher rate of wear).

From my understanding, that is one of the main reason the 347 kits should not be supercharged, MiracleMax.

If you were looking at a block strength aspect, an A and R block 302 would be stronger, but the R block really can't be run on the street because of cooling problems, and the A blocks are pretty hard to come by since they are no longer made. Since the A block can actually be used in a street car and the R can't, it's added even more demand for the A4 blocks.

[FroMack]

Thanx for all your help guys. I think I know enough to make my decision.

Tom aka FroMack