old school vrs new school

[fordkid68]

ok guys what are your appinions on this subject.


almost all the guys now that are going for high power stangs got eathier the 5.0 fox body style stangs or the brand new(have no idea what they are called) stangs. but what I dont get is I always thought the older stangs were better for racing. so witch is it. I mean dont ket me wrong here I love my 66 and as some of you probly know I am planning on doing A 6 to 8cyl swap at the beginning of this next summer. but I want to make sure I do it right and am going to be able to compeet with the newer stangs. so basicly is every one just over looking the classic stangs or are they not as competative as the newer one's.


really what I am trying to decide is when I convert over the the 8cyl. will A 289 do the job. or will I need to go with the 351. I just need every thing planned out before I start taking things apart and since I have time I am trying to cover every possible angle of this project.


thanks
ford kid

[1968FastbackN20]

There is no replacement for displacement! I would go for the 351 you will be much happier in the end.

[gp001]

A 351 would be nice, but comes with some clearance issues (like headers). A nice 5.0 does wonders in a 3000lb car, especially when its stroked .

[69fastback]

You can make any car fast with enough money. 5.0s are just more popular cuz more people grew up with them. You can take any classic mustang and make it just as fast. It is just that 5.0s are alot cheaper and easier to make fast than a classic mustang. Plus a classic mustang is alot more valvuable in its original condition so you don't see to many people buying them for racing.

[mustangman65_79]

I would put the 351 in if your going to race. The '66 coupe only weighs about 2600-2700 LBS. But since there are more 5.0's then old mustangs, most of those get raced. Thats why u don't see many old mustangs, pplus most of them get restored.

You can make any car fast with enough money. 5.0s are just more popular cuz more people grew up with them. You can take any classic mustang and make it just as fast. It is just that 5.0s are alot cheaper and easier to make fast than a classic mustang. Plus a classic mustang is alot more valvuable in its original condition so you don't see to many people buying them for racing.

I think it's cheaper to race an old car, as long as the body keeps up. No computer, or junk like that to mess with.

[1968FastbackN20]

Most of the clearance issues are with manual trans. I know this one from experience! A 347 stroker still falls short if you put all the same pieces on a 351, plus the mainwebbing of the 351 is alot stronger then the 302, hence they can handle more power when built properly.

[fordkid68]

aight thanks guys. thats what I wanted to hear. cuz for me I love the classic mustangs. but just wanted to know if there was A reason. witch now I know there is. so let me see if I get this straight. you guys are saying A 5.0 is better when it is strocked. but what about the computers and the fuel injection(correct me if I am wrong) but A 5.0 is different from A 302 right. A 5.0 is A newer version of A 302 with fuel injection and computers. but would A 302 do the same thing as A 5.0 if it was strocked. but then again wouldn't A 351 have more cubes even if I strocked A 302. damn I am confused.

well I realy want to stay away from all those computers. I dont think they belong in cars. and I am restoring my stang just wanting to race it as well. I dont want to change the body shape at all except maybe A scoop or A cowl induction hood. for more clearance.


well if you guys can explain the isue about the 351 the 302 and the 5.0 being strocked. that would help out alot. but for sure the 289 is out.


thanks
ford kid

[The Deuce]

Done right, you can get a 351w under the stock hood. Then you wouldn't have to change the body at all.

A 302 and a 5.0 are the same motor. Most people use 5.0 to refer to the fox body cars, even though it is a 302w, just like the motor in a 68.

A stroked 302 is good for 347, but you can stroke a 352 to 408. Not wouldn't that be fun in your 66? The 351 is a stronger block, and if you are really concerned with racing, stroke it and build from there. Thats where the most power will be from your options.

[66fastback]

I agree with 69fastback on this one (us fastback guys tend to stick together you see).

The reason most people run Fox bodied Stangs is because they are....

1. PLENTIFUL. Easy to find (and cheap) have a lot to do with this.

2. Classic Stangs are OLD. I know I run the risk of offending my fellow enthusiasts with this point, but let's face it......these cars are getting very old, and most of the people driving around and hopping up cars these days have never grown up in or possibly even driven an early Stang. To them it's simply another OLD CAR. OK, a COOL old car, but still old (rides bad, handles bad, no A/C or power assist.....ect.

3. See reason #1. The Fox bodied cars are the modern equivalent of the 55-57 Chevy. Those cars were a hot rodders dream back in the day because they came with good parts to start with, and the aftermarket support picked up on a good thing. Same with the Mustang in the late 80's, and there are an almost unlimited number of parts you can buy to hop these cars up......even more than for the old cars, and thats a lot.

Don't be so quick to toss the computer, they do belong in cars. If it wasn't for computers (bless the EECIV), we would still be driving cars with 150 hp and enough smog equipment to build a battle-bot with. Yeah I know you can make power with a carb, and cheaply, but the computer has allowed us to have cars with a lot of power, and a ton of torque. Torque=FUN. It's what made the old big blocks such a big deal. They made tons, and tons or torque, which is why everyone wants to build a stroker engine these days......more torque. This applies whether you build an old car or a new one, or use a carb or fuel injection. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR CUBIC INCHES.

Either way, build a 351w or a stroker 302 (like a 347), and you will have big grins. Don't forget to add some 3.55 or 3.73 rear gears.....it makes more TORQUE.

[red]

The old and new stangs are really different animals.

I like my '65 fastback (302) for different reasons than the '95 cobra (5.0). I learned on the '65 and it is alot easier to work on and diagnose problems. No computer, only a couple vacuum lines, probably 1/100th of the wires running around, no smog equipment,no power steering, no AC. The '65 is great for straight-line power and turns way more heads that the '95 cobra convertible. If the '65 breaks down, I fix it myself with the tools I have.

For the '95, the thing handles corners like you wouldn't believe. The AC is great. If it breaks down, I pay a mechanic to fix it, but it doesn't break down very often.

With some engine/drivetrain work the '65 is as fast as the factory original '95 cobra in the quarter mile.

I would go with the one you can get more local help with. You will always need a spare set of hands and it helps if they are knowledgeible and interested. Either way, it will be a great experience.

[1968FastbackN20]

Great points made by all above!

I would like to add that a OLD 68 fastback can easily kill a new C-5 corvette in the corners with simple bolt on suspension components. Choose your buildup direction and stick with it!

[fordkid68]

ok I am preaty sure I know what I am going to do.


I am going to drop in A 302. and drive it around untill I get used to it and put A decent amount of miles on it. then I will strocke it out to A 347. does it sound like A plan or am I missing something. mainly cuz going from A straight six to A 302 will be quit A step and lets face it. I am yung and dont have much experiance behind the wheel.


and sorry but one more question.

when it comes to the trans. I really wanted to go with 4.10 rear gears. mainly cuz top speed doesn't impress me but every once in A while you just got to. so with A 5 speed trans what would be my top speed with 4.10. I know you will need alot more info then just the trans and engine to determine the top speed but just give me an idea. but more importantly I drive the free way almost every day. so with A 5 speed trans and 4.10 gears would I be able to cruise at 70 to 80 mile on houre for alitle while. or would it just be smarter to go with 3.73 gears.


well thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate your help expecially since I am yung and for some reason there are alot of guys that dont want to help yung people.(none of witch I know are on this board) so thanks for helping me out.


thanks
ford kid

[The Deuce]

I forget exactly where this will put you. MustangBelle306 has 4.10's with here 5speed and I think it runs between 3 and 3.5k at 75. Now that is with a normal OD gear, and it's not that outrageous. Remember that you are going to be way lower than you would running a t-10 and even 3.55 gears.

The biggest factor to know is what size tires are going on the back. If you put on a big tire, your 4.10 becomes an effective 3.9 or so, depending.

My 2.73's run 2200 at 80 so 2200 x(4.10/2.73) = 3304. Seems logical enough, but I'm not sure that its totally accurate.

[mustangman65_79]

They now have a kit to bolt in a 6-speed tranny. So u could use your 4:10 with a six speed.

As for the motor, u can run a 302 to get used to ther power, but if u want to race at all, I'd stick a 351w in it. I can be stroked out to a 427, but thats the max, and I wouldn't ever go that high. I heard a 396 bore on it is the best bore. A 289 is a nice motor to have, but it's mainly not a race motor, don't get me wrong, it's strong, but u can get a 302 for less money. U can put in a 351w, leave it stock till u get used to a v8 and don't wrap yourself around a tree, so later on, since u already converted it to a 351, u can build up another 351 while driving the stock one, then put it in when u are done. A 351 fits in tight, but with few mods. More power with only a little more money. Plus u can have the bragging rights that u put in a 351 in your stang and stroked it out to a 396, 408, whatever. few other ppl can say that.

[gp001]

Originally posted by mustangman65_79
They now have a kit to bolt in a 6-speed tranny. So u could use your 4:10 with a six speed.

Who makes a kit to bolt in a 6 speed ?

[mustangman65_79]

Shoot, now I'm going to have to look it up, I hope I brought the right mag with me, I'll get back to u later.

[gp001]

I made a program when I was researching which 6 speed I wanted to use. It generates a chart for RPM/Gear/MPH. I ran it using a T5, 4.10, and 235/60-15 tires. Click the link to see the chart

CLICK HERE TO SEE CHART

[mustangman65_79]

There is one on this site far a T5 that u can modify, go check it out.

[Jeff65]

My '65 has a 5.0L long block (M-6007-A52) fitted with early v-belt drive accessories, E303 roller cam, GT40 heads/valves, Weiand Stealth and Holley Street Avenger, Hookers, etc. Runs great! Yes, I would have preferred EFI, but finding a good used MAF set up is not easy and a new one is cost prohibitive (I have my limits, and my wife gets a vote on how much I spend!) One day I will add the EFI computer, just not now. Point is, you can use 5.0L engines successfully to power classic Mustangs without using the EFI, serpentine drive, etc. Next mod is four wheel disc brakes. Perhaps next Summer...

[fordkid68]

hmmmm well I dont have A wife to hold me back but I do got my dad.lol. and right now he is saying for my first v8 engine(the one just to get used to more power. he is limiting the hp to 280. cuz right now with my straight six I only got 120. and he thinks if I can go from 120 to 280 with out crashing then he will let me go as far as I can aford to go. so whats the stock hp on A 302 and A 351. for some reason I dont see the 351 being under 280. so that means that A 302 is what I would go with.


well thanks for the trans help. it looks like I will be getting my 4.10's with A 5 speed. even if it means I got to stay in the slow lane for A 3 hours trip.


thanks
ford kid