New Unsolved Mysteries episode in the works!!!. PLEASE HELP!! (rather long)

JRowlette · 05-30-2001, 11:53 PM

All right, if I can't fix this, I am sending it in to Unsolved Mysteries!!! Saturday I bought your basic tune-up kit, cap, rotor, plugs(Bosch Platinum), wires and fuel filter. I get all of this done and my car doesn't start!!!!. When I crank it, I can hear it fire erratically on a couple of cylinders, but it won't go ahead and start and it backfires like Grandpa's ole 12-gauge, (several people came out of their apartments looking for dead bodies). I checked voltage on TPS, MAF, injectors, etc. Everything was fine, the coil was even shooting 6-inch arc. Next, i put ALL of the old stuff back in the car. Still it didn't work. Since then I have put cheapass Autolite plugs, a new fuel pressure regulator, and a new TFI Module. Still doesnt start!!!!!!! Talk about frustration.
The plugs are firing even when fouled, the rotor lines up correctly with every cylinder, and I am getting very good compression in every cylinder. WTF!!!!!
I have done some research and found out about the PIP, or profile ignition pickup switching device located in the distributor which provides the EEC with crankshaft position information upon which it bases engine speed, spark advance, and injector timing computations. Is this replaceable or has ANYBODY dealt with it?????? Please help!!! It seems like I have done everything I can possibly imagine doing.

fiveohpatrol · 05-31-2001, 01:06 AM

hmmm, sounds like an odd problem your having there, im gonna put my money on something with your fuel filter, maybe you bought a defective one or put it on backwards, im pretty sure fuel will only flow one way through them, check that out first, there should be an arrow on it pointing in the direction of the flow, next make sure that you have the wires in correct firing order, good luck with it

------------------
88 Notch, 3.73's, Ported E7's, Explorer int. w/ ported lower, pulleys, 1.7RR's, BBK headers, off-road H-pipe, flowmasters, subframe connectors, 65mm TB, shift kit, March ram air ,MSD coil, U/L control arms, 155lph fuel pump, cheap 2800 stall, Crane Adj.FPR, best 1/4--> 13.77@101.35

joe4speed · 05-31-2001, 01:46 AM

I hate to say the obvious, but did you make sure of your firing order when you put the wires on the new cap? Just a suggestion, I have gotten a couple mixed up before and sounds similar!! Good luck!!!

------------------
Joe!
1988 GT, 167,000 miles!!! 13.58@105mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website:
www.joe4speed.com
1999 Ninja ZX-6R 10.32@135mph!
1993 Olds Eighty Eight LSS 16.40@88.8mph

JRowlette · 05-31-2001, 05:38 AM

The fuel filter can only fit in the mounting bracket one way b/c of the groove around the top. I even put the old one back in the car.
I also checked the firing order at least 12 times (1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8). I even had two other people check to make sure I wasn't retarded, even though I feel like I am.

Smokedawg · 05-31-2001, 07:49 AM

If everything else checks out the way you say it does could it be your control module?

------------------
347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del

[This message has been edited by Smokedawg (edited 05-31-2001).]

David Fulford · 05-31-2001, 07:58 AM

Sounds like firing order to me also. If I'm not mistaken, all the newer 302s use 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8.(I think) Which is also the 351W firing order. I have a 69 mach 1 with a ford crate motor in it and did the same thing. Because I used an old Haynes manual for the firing order.

Smokedawg · 05-31-2001, 08:38 AM

He already posted the firing order up above and said he has checked it many a times

------------------
347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del

David Fulford · 05-31-2001, 10:17 AM

I guess your correct.....didn't see it. I thought for sure that would be it if it backfires as loud as a shotgun. Everyone crosses a wire now and then.

gray87GT · 05-31-2001, 11:46 AM

When I finished up my engine and started it it did what yours is doing. I checked the firing order and it was right, but I didn't check the wires at the plugs. I had 7 and 8 switched at the spark plugs.....might wanna check it, you never know.

Capri306 · 05-31-2001, 03:28 PM

The first mistake was getting Bosch CRAPnum plugs, but it should've at least fired over. I think you should check your wires (INCLUDING THE COIL WIRE) with an ohmmeter to be sure they're okay. Just because you have new ones doesn't mean a thing. They should measure 4-7kilohms PER FOOT. Check the connectors on each, too.

If you wanna check for gas getting up to the fuel rail, just take a Bic pen with a rag over it and press the Schrader valve to see if fuel comes out. You hear the pump kicking on, right?

Another dumb question, are you doing the firing order clockwise or counterclockwise? It should be the latter, and like said above, check the order all the way down to the actual plugs. Be sure you start with the #1 cast into the cap. Good luck.

------------------
Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online
1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73
1987 Mustang LX Notch

JRowlette · 05-31-2001, 10:59 PM

I'll find an ohmeter and check the wires. The fuel pump on the car is an aftermarket intank, so I can hear it loud clear when I turn the key, and fuel does spray out the Schrader valve. And I did get the firing order in the counterclockwise direction. I am gonna check the 10-pin connectors again tomorrow. I have heard some people will slightly bend the pins to get a better connection. Maybe someday I will get it running!!!

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05-30-2001, 11:53 PM	#1
JRowlette Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bowling Green, KY Posts: 95	New Unsolved Mysteries episode in the works!!!. PLEASE HELP!! (rather long) All right, if I can't fix this, I am sending it in to Unsolved Mysteries!!! Saturday I bought your basic tune-up kit, cap, rotor, plugs(Bosch Platinum), wires and fuel filter. I get all of this done and my car doesn't start!!!!. When I crank it, I can hear it fire erratically on a couple of cylinders, but it won't go ahead and start and it backfires like Grandpa's ole 12-gauge, (several people came out of their apartments looking for dead bodies). I checked voltage on TPS, MAF, injectors, etc. Everything was fine, the coil was even shooting 6-inch arc. Next, i put ALL of the old stuff back in the car. Still it didn't work. Since then I have put cheapass Autolite plugs, a new fuel pressure regulator, and a new TFI Module. Still doesnt start!!!!!!! Talk about frustration. The plugs are firing even when fouled, the rotor lines up correctly with every cylinder, and I am getting very good compression in every cylinder. WTF!!!!! I have done some research and found out about the PIP, or profile ignition pickup switching device located in the distributor which provides the EEC with crankshaft position information upon which it bases engine speed, spark advance, and injector timing computations. Is this replaceable or has ANYBODY dealt with it?????? Please help!!! It seems like I have done everything I can possibly imagine doing.

05-31-2001, 01:06 AM	#2
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	hmmm, sounds like an odd problem your having there, im gonna put my money on something with your fuel filter, maybe you bought a defective one or put it on backwards, im pretty sure fuel will only flow one way through them, check that out first, there should be an arrow on it pointing in the direction of the flow, next make sure that you have the wires in correct firing order, good luck with it ------------------ 88 Notch, 3.73's, Ported E7's, Explorer int. w/ ported lower, pulleys, 1.7RR's, BBK headers, off-road H-pipe, flowmasters, subframe connectors, 65mm TB, shift kit, March ram air ,MSD coil, U/L control arms, 155lph fuel pump, cheap 2800 stall, Crane Adj.FPR, best 1/4--> 13.77@101.35

05-31-2001, 01:46 AM	#3
joe4speed He said Member...heh, heh Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Jupiter, Florida U.S.A. Posts: 3,718	I hate to say the obvious, but did you make sure of your firing order when you put the wires on the new cap? Just a suggestion, I have gotten a couple mixed up before and sounds similar!! Good luck!!! ------------------ Joe! 1988 GT, 167,000 miles!!! 13.58@105mph Check out my listing! Click here! Or my website: www.joe4speed.com 1999 Ninja ZX-6R 10.32@135mph! 1993 Olds Eighty Eight LSS 16.40@88.8mph

05-31-2001, 05:38 AM	#4
JRowlette Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bowling Green, KY Posts: 95	The fuel filter can only fit in the mounting bracket one way b/c of the groove around the top. I even put the old one back in the car. I also checked the firing order at least 12 times (1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8). I even had two other people check to make sure I wasn't retarded, even though I feel like I am.

05-31-2001, 07:49 AM	#5
Smokedawg Tires Fear Me... Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 867	If everything else checks out the way you say it does could it be your control module? ------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del [This message has been edited by Smokedawg (edited 05-31-2001).]

05-31-2001, 07:58 AM	#6
David Fulford Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 193	Sounds like firing order to me also. If I'm not mistaken, all the newer 302s use 1,3,7,2,6,5,4,8.(I think) Which is also the 351W firing order. I have a 69 mach 1 with a ford crate motor in it and did the same thing. Because I used an old Haynes manual for the firing order.

05-31-2001, 08:38 AM	#7
Smokedawg Tires Fear Me... Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 867	He already posted the firing order up above and said he has checked it many a times ------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, A9P Computer, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley Fuel Regulator, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 79mm Mass Air Unit, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Short Throw Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del

05-31-2001, 10:17 AM	#8
David Fulford Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 193	I guess your correct.....didn't see it. I thought for sure that would be it if it backfires as loud as a shotgun. Everyone crosses a wire now and then.

05-31-2001, 11:46 AM	#9
gray87GT Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 177	When I finished up my engine and started it it did what yours is doing. I checked the firing order and it was right, but I didn't check the wires at the plugs. I had 7 and 8 switched at the spark plugs.....might wanna check it, you never know.

05-31-2001, 03:28 PM	#10
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	The first mistake was getting Bosch CRAPnum plugs, but it should've at least fired over. I think you should check your wires (INCLUDING THE COIL WIRE) with an ohmmeter to be sure they're okay. Just because you have new ones doesn't mean a thing. They should measure 4-7kilohms PER FOOT. Check the connectors on each, too. If you wanna check for gas getting up to the fuel rail, just take a Bic pen with a rag over it and press the Schrader valve to see if fuel comes out. You hear the pump kicking on, right? Another dumb question, are you doing the firing order clockwise or counterclockwise? It should be the latter, and like said above, check the order all the way down to the actual plugs. Be sure you start with the #1 cast into the cap. Good luck. ------------------ Capri306, Moderator, The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri, 5.0L -- C4 -- 2.73 1987 Mustang LX Notch

05-31-2001, 10:59 PM	#11
JRowlette Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bowling Green, KY Posts: 95	I'll find an ohmeter and check the wires. The fuel pump on the car is an aftermarket intank, so I can hear it loud clear when I turn the key, and fuel does spray out the Schrader valve. And I did get the firing order in the counterclockwise direction. I am gonna check the 10-pin connectors again tomorrow. I have heard some people will slightly bend the pins to get a better connection. Maybe someday I will get it running!!!