302 or 347

Scrapla · 03-25-2003, 11:47 AM

Ok Ive been wanting a new motor for my 90gt's tired 140k plus mile monster. I got quoted 3k for a 302 with forged internals and install, Well the dude has a nice 347 with new balanced crank and all new JE forged internals ready to go and is tellin me 1k more so for 4k I get a 347 with a balanced crank and all new internals installed what do you guys think about that cause I'm new to the motor building world, the reason someone is doin it for me is cause I have no space or time to do it myself.

WADS56 · 03-25-2003, 12:01 PM

Smokedawg · 03-25-2003, 12:39 PM

Nixon1 · 03-25-2003, 02:01 PM

I dream very good, very wet dreams about getting a 347. If my motor would only blow up so I had a good excuse to part with so much money. Sadly, this 302 is far too strong and stubborn. Hell it's got 147,000 miles un-rebuilt and it doesn't leak or burn a single drop of oil. It's truly amazing. So in other words...push the extra $1000! Not only for your own enjoyment, but so at car shows when people go "302?", you can say "347", and see the look of awe and amazement on their faces.

Dark_5.0 · 03-25-2003, 02:25 PM

Your not gonna put the E7's on the 347 are you?

For a grand more I would go with the 347 all the way baby.

Later,

rwhite65 · 03-25-2003, 05:17 PM

if u go with the 347, u really need a good set of heads. Ur stock e7's will choke it out, or so I have been told.
Ryan

Scrapla · 03-25-2003, 10:24 PM

I have new gt40-ps which he gave a full port job to along with a TFS street heat upper and lower intake, stainless headers, 65mm TB new mass air and a NOS 5115 dry kit :-)

sn95gt19 · 03-26-2003, 11:50 AM

rwhite65 · 03-26-2003, 02:53 PM

stuff the 347 in there, I doubt u will ever say "I wish I did not have so much power"...but if you don't go with the 347, u might say "wish I did have a little more power, or alot!!"
Ryan

93GTDIN · 03-26-2003, 03:34 PM

on the 347 + E7 issue: A friend of mine has E7's on his 342 and the car is way faster than it should be if the stock heads really do indeed "choke" the stroker. Its my opinion that the smaller valves of the stock heads increase velocity, and you pick up lots of low end torque. His car is a rocket out of the hole, but doesnt pull up top like my Heads cam intake 306.

In my personal opinion, go with a 331 or even a 342 but not a 347. The reason being you want to stay with a 4 inch bore if you can. Also, the advantage of the 331 is that the oil ring does not intersect the wrist pin, a common cause of short engine life and compression loss in the bigger 347 strokers. Some companies claimed to have solved this, but I dont put much stock in it. The 331 has a shorter stroke for better rod angle, and a larger piston skirt. A 331 WILL last longer and make about the same power, no question about it.

rwhite65 · 03-26-2003, 07:27 PM

I have no doubts that the 347 pulls hard out of the hole with stock heads, just makes sense that a stock head will not feed the bigger engine properly at higher rpms. I believe he said he has aftermarket heads, so this will not be an issue for him.
Ryan

Scrapla · 03-27-2003, 12:02 AM

The heads are gt40-ps with a full port job

MidNiteBlu 5.0 · 03-27-2003, 12:23 AM

If its a daily driver i would suggest a 331

sn95gt19 · 03-27-2003, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 93GTDIN
In my personal opinion, go with a 331 or even a 342 but not a 347. The reason being you want to stay with a 4 inch bore if you can. Also, the advantage of the 331 is that the oil ring does not intersect the wrist pin, a common cause of short engine life and compression loss in the bigger 347 strokers. Some companies claimed to have solved this, but I dont put much stock in it. The 331 has a shorter stroke for better rod angle, and a larger piston skirt. A 331 WILL last longer and make about the same power, no question about it.

MYTH......

VeNuM · 03-27-2003, 11:06 AM

sn95gt19: I am good friends with a reputible engine builder/tuner who builds many Renegade motors. From what he's seen over the 25 years he's been in the business is that maybe the 3rd ring theory is a myth, but 347's cause accelerated wear on the cylinders. I've seen some of them and after a year or so the cylinders are all marked/scratched up. This wasn't one instance either, he told me he's seen it 3 times. Now if this were my motor, I would choose a 347 for a weekend/strip car, and a 331 for a street/strip car. I was going to build a 331 myself but decided to step it up to the Windsor block. So my bottom line is I believe 347 are more of a race motor that is going to be freshen up every once in awhile, as opposed to a street motor that will be driven 100k+ miles before being worked on. And 93GTDIN, a 331 is a 3.25 stroke with a 4.030 bore, I think you're thinking of a 327 if you want to stay with the stock 4.000 bore, but I definately agree with you and a 331 will last longer than a 347. ~Brian

sn95gt19 · 03-27-2003, 11:33 AM

we have 5 people in our "crew" (if thats what you want to call it) that have 5.4 rod, 3.4 crank 347's, and 2 331's all of which have never had a problem AT ALL with the piston "side loading" on the cylinder wall.

your reputable engine builder has seen 3-347's go bad....any ford dealership IM SURE has replaced more than 3 factory motors under warranty.

which by what you are saying.......the 347 is more reliable than a factory 302?

everytime this comes up, there are always people who think both ways. but in my opinion people emphasize the VERY FEW 347 casualties way too much, take in to consideration that:

FORD REPLACES FACTORY MOTORS, MORE OFTEN THAN THE AFTERMARKET CONSUMER REPLACES 347'S, im sure there are more 302's than 347's out there but im sure the percentage of replacement is the same if not less for a 347

sn95gt19 · 03-27-2003, 11:34 AM

there is only 1 problem with a 347: that is there is less "meat" on the top of the piston, which makes it weaker for use with "BIG" power adders.

Scrapla · 03-27-2003, 02:04 PM

I'm sorry I didnt mention that, this car is gonna be a daily driver, it will see the highway 5 times a week and mostly be drivin on the street. My mechanic mentioned a 347 cause he already had one and the internals, but I'm just looking for a nice motor with decent power that will last me +100k miles without to much maintence, something durable for a daily so now the question is 331 or 347? And the biggest power adder is gonna be a dry shot of nos 100hp and thats gonna be very rarley at the track if I even choose to install the system, other then that its just gonna be your basic bolt ons, maybe a year or two down the line a small super charger like 5psi

93GTDIN · 03-27-2003, 05:17 PM

sounds like you need a 331

the bottome line is, myth or not, why risk the 10 extra cubes on a daily driver?

sn95gt19 · 03-27-2003, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 93GTDIN
sounds like you need a 331

the bottome line is, myth or not, why risk the 10 extra cubes on a daily driver?

read the whole thread????

scrapala: if your are just building something really mild i would just stick with a 302, or maybe a 306, and spend your money on a good set of heads. afr 185's

03-25-2003, 11:47 AM	#1
Scrapla Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 532	302 or 347 Ok Ive been wanting a new motor for my 90gt's tired 140k plus mile monster. I got quoted 3k for a 302 with forged internals and install, Well the dude has a nice 347 with new balanced crank and all new JE forged internals ready to go and is tellin me 1k more so for 4k I get a 347 with a balanced crank and all new internals installed what do you guys think about that cause I'm new to the motor building world, the reason someone is doin it for me is cause I have no space or time to do it myself. __________________ 90gt 347 and some bolt ons :-) RICE HATERS MEMBER #73

03-25-2003, 12:01 PM	#2
WADS56 gear banger Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 1,144	347 __________________ 79 Hatch: NA 347, Stage 2 Canfield Heads, Victor JR. Intake, Blueprinted Holley 750 HP, Solid Roller Cam, Shooting for 10's on motor 93 LX: Tremec, dual friction clutch, fms flywheel, Hedman shorties, O/R H-pipe Ricer hater's club member #49

03-25-2003, 12:39 PM	#3
Smokedawg Tires Fear Me... Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 867	347 __________________ 1990 Mustang GT- 347 Stroker-Tremec 3550-Compucar Nitrous, AFR, Systemax Intake, AFM, 30lbers, 70MM TB, 76mm MAF, full suspension and lots more 1995 Chevy S-10 406 SBC, Dual tunnel ram, Dart heads, Nitrous, full tub, 4-link, adjustable drag shocks, coil-overs, 9in rearend, 4.56 gears...etc

03-25-2003, 02:01 PM	#4
Nixon1 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 432	I dream very good, very wet dreams about getting a 347. If my motor would only blow up so I had a good excuse to part with so much money. Sadly, this 302 is far too strong and stubborn. Hell it's got 147,000 miles un-rebuilt and it doesn't leak or burn a single drop of oil. It's truly amazing. So in other words...push the extra $1000! Not only for your own enjoyment, but so at car shows when people go "302?", you can say "347", and see the look of awe and amazement on their faces. __________________ '91 Mustang GT 5.0 AOD Daily Driver Current stats: NEW 302 short block, E-303 cam (@.050, 220/220, .498/.498, 110 degrees), 1.6 roller rockers, Performer RPM heads (aluminum, 1.9/1.6, 60cc chambers), Cobra intake, Granatelli 75mm MAF, Billet AFPR, Equal-Length Shorty Headers, Off-Road X Pipe, Flowmasters, 4.10 POSI 13.73 at 103.8, ~2.2 60'

03-25-2003, 02:25 PM	#5
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	Your not gonna put the E7's on the 347 are you? For a grand more I would go with the 347 all the way baby. Later, __________________ 92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer

03-25-2003, 05:17 PM	#6
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	heads if u go with the 347, u really need a good set of heads. Ur stock e7's will choke it out, or so I have been told. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

03-25-2003, 10:24 PM	#7
Scrapla Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 532	I have new gt40-ps which he gave a full port job to along with a TFS street heat upper and lower intake, stainless headers, 65mm TB new mass air and a NOS 5115 dry kit :-) __________________ 90gt 347 and some bolt ons :-) RICE HATERS MEMBER #73

03-26-2003, 11:50 AM	#8
sn95gt19 motors done......woohooo Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 799	347 __________________ 95gt lazer red (98 cobra clone) Rice Haters Club Member #116

03-26-2003, 02:53 PM	#9
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	well then stuff the 347 in there, I doubt u will ever say "I wish I did not have so much power"...but if you don't go with the 347, u might say "wish I did have a little more power, or alot!!" Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

03-26-2003, 03:34 PM	#10
93GTDIN Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Live music capital of the world, TX Posts: 324	on the 347 + E7 issue: A friend of mine has E7's on his 342 and the car is way faster than it should be if the stock heads really do indeed "choke" the stroker. Its my opinion that the smaller valves of the stock heads increase velocity, and you pick up lots of low end torque. His car is a rocket out of the hole, but doesnt pull up top like my Heads cam intake 306. In my personal opinion, go with a 331 or even a 342 but not a 347. The reason being you want to stay with a 4 inch bore if you can. Also, the advantage of the 331 is that the oil ring does not intersect the wrist pin, a common cause of short engine life and compression loss in the bigger 347 strokers. Some companies claimed to have solved this, but I dont put much stock in it. The 331 has a shorter stroke for better rod angle, and a larger piston skirt. A 331 WILL last longer and make about the same power, no question about it. __________________ 96 Cobra - a bit too stock. 14.0 @ 101

03-26-2003, 07:27 PM	#11
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	e7's I have no doubts that the 347 pulls hard out of the hole with stock heads, just makes sense that a stock head will not feed the bigger engine properly at higher rpms. I believe he said he has aftermarket heads, so this will not be an issue for him. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

03-27-2003, 12:02 AM	#12
Scrapla Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 532	The heads are gt40-ps with a full port job __________________ 90gt 347 and some bolt ons :-) RICE HATERS MEMBER #73

03-27-2003, 12:23 AM	#13
MidNiteBlu 5.0 I got something to say Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,557	If its a daily driver i would suggest a 331 __________________ 91 LX Hatch 5.0 - made for the twisties 89 LX Hatchback 5.0 5spd. stolen/stripped 4/7/05 http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?3494 1987 Toyota Pickup Ricer Haters Club Member #33 Want a custom gauge cluster for your Vintage Mustang? www.jmeenterprises.com

03-27-2003, 11:06 AM	#15
VeNuM Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Downers Grove, IL Posts: 464	sn95gt19: I am good friends with a reputible engine builder/tuner who builds many Renegade motors. From what he's seen over the 25 years he's been in the business is that maybe the 3rd ring theory is a myth, but 347's cause accelerated wear on the cylinders. I've seen some of them and after a year or so the cylinders are all marked/scratched up. This wasn't one instance either, he told me he's seen it 3 times. Now if this were my motor, I would choose a 347 for a weekend/strip car, and a 331 for a street/strip car. I was going to build a 331 myself but decided to step it up to the Windsor block. So my bottom line is I believe 347 are more of a race motor that is going to be freshen up every once in awhile, as opposed to a street motor that will be driven 100k+ miles before being worked on. And 93GTDIN, a 331 is a 3.25 stroke with a 4.030 bore, I think you're thinking of a 327 if you want to stay with the stock 4.000 bore, but I definately agree with you and a 331 will last longer than a 347. ~Brian __________________ 1989 Black Mustang GT Hatchback, Underdrive Pulles, Electric Fan, Cold Air Intake, Headers, Offroad H-Pipe, Magnaflow catback, Steeda Tri-Ax, Fluidyne Aluminum Radiator, Timing at 14*, 3.73's Coming not so soon: 408w Ricer Hater's Club Member #59

03-27-2003, 11:33 AM	#16
sn95gt19 motors done......woohooo Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 799	we have 5 people in our "crew" (if thats what you want to call it) that have 5.4 rod, 3.4 crank 347's, and 2 331's all of which have never had a problem AT ALL with the piston "side loading" on the cylinder wall. your reputable engine builder has seen 3-347's go bad....any ford dealership IM SURE has replaced more than 3 factory motors under warranty. which by what you are saying.......the 347 is more reliable than a factory 302? everytime this comes up, there are always people who think both ways. but in my opinion people emphasize the VERY FEW 347 casualties way too much, take in to consideration that: FORD REPLACES FACTORY MOTORS, MORE OFTEN THAN THE AFTERMARKET CONSUMER REPLACES 347'S, im sure there are more 302's than 347's out there but im sure the percentage of replacement is the same if not less for a 347 __________________ 95gt lazer red (98 cobra clone) Rice Haters Club Member #116

03-27-2003, 11:34 AM	#17
sn95gt19 motors done......woohooo Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 799	there is only 1 problem with a 347: that is there is less "meat" on the top of the piston, which makes it weaker for use with "BIG" power adders. __________________ 95gt lazer red (98 cobra clone) Rice Haters Club Member #116

03-27-2003, 02:04 PM	#18
Scrapla Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 532	I'm sorry I didnt mention that, this car is gonna be a daily driver, it will see the highway 5 times a week and mostly be drivin on the street. My mechanic mentioned a 347 cause he already had one and the internals, but I'm just looking for a nice motor with decent power that will last me +100k miles without to much maintence, something durable for a daily so now the question is 331 or 347? And the biggest power adder is gonna be a dry shot of nos 100hp and thats gonna be very rarley at the track if I even choose to install the system, other then that its just gonna be your basic bolt ons, maybe a year or two down the line a small super charger like 5psi __________________ 90gt 347 and some bolt ons :-) RICE HATERS MEMBER #73

03-27-2003, 05:17 PM	#19
93GTDIN Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Live music capital of the world, TX Posts: 324	sounds like you need a 331 the bottome line is, myth or not, why risk the 10 extra cubes on a daily driver? __________________ 96 Cobra - a bit too stock. 14.0 @ 101