Heating Problems Gone!!

Smokedawg · 06-14-2001, 01:08 PM

Well, I appreciate everyones help with helping me find my heating problem. So far I have went to a 3-core radiator...160 Thermostat...17in Perma-cool fan...Electric fan in front of the radiator to push air through in stop and go driving...And 2 quarts of EnginKool..
Well, I got to experimenting the other day and took off my underdrive waterpump pulley and put my stock one back on...Problem Fixed..Has anyone else had this problem before??

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347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley AFPR, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 73mm Vortech MAF, 70mm TB, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del, rear seat del.

Rick 91GT · 06-14-2001, 01:39 PM

Glad to hear you got it fixed, I have never had a problem with the underdrive water pump pulley and cooling. I would get a nice hi-flow water pump like a Stewart or E-brock. I run a 180 thermo, Ron Davis Radiator, 16" Perma-Cool fan and a Stewart pump and even in 90 degrees heat, it never gets over 190degrees and thats when I am sitting at a red light.

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

Smokedawg · 06-14-2001, 02:01 PM

How much money are we talking for a hi-flow water pump??

jimberg · 06-14-2001, 02:18 PM

I was thinking about how cooling systems work on the way home yesterday as I watched my needle rise in stop and go traffic. I find it intesting that people think a thermostat will fix the problem.

The idea of a thermostat is to keep the water in the engine until it reaches a certain operating temperature and then when it reaches that temperature allows the water to start circulating through the radiator until it cools down enough to close the thermostat again. If it doesn't cool down sufficiently to close a 198 degree thermostat, why would it cool down sufficiently to close a 160 degree thermostat? Is it easier to remove heat from 160 degree water than it is 198 degree water? No, of course not. If the temp keeps rising with a 198 it will keep rising with a 160. The benefit of a higher temp thermostat is that it will also keep the water in the radiator long enough to cool off. When the coolant starts flowing, the colder fluid will mix with the warmer fluid until it hopefully reaches an equilibrium temperature lower than the temp of the thermostat and the process starts all over again.

I suppose that based on this, overheating can be caused by several different reasons.

The thermostat is bad and stuck closed so that water never flows.

The waterpump isn't pushing the coolant through fast enough so the water is getting heated up in the block as it gets pushed through and is never able to obtain an equilibrium below the rating of the thermostat.

The radiator doesn't have enough heat exchange efficiency to keep up with the heat generated by the engine. This is probably where most of us fit.

Sorry, it's just been one of those contemplating type of days.

Rick has a good suggestion. Replace the water pump with a high flow pump. That will make up for the underdrive. I don't know if it would cause more drag, though, negating the effect of the underdrive.

A good, monster aluminum radiator and a stock water pump may work equally well and will not cause the drag problem. If you're running a 50/50 antifreeze mix, it may be a good idea to go to 75% water since it releases heat faster than anti-freeze. Keep the anti-freeze for lubrication and corrosion protection. you should also use a hotter thermostat. 180 minimum, maybe even something higher. Get a good high flow one, not a cheapy from the local autoparts store.

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351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

Smokedawg · 06-14-2001, 02:25 PM

As I already stated.."THE HEATING PROBLEM IS FIXED!"..I am not going to go switching my thermostat or radiator..I am still running my underdrive crank pulley which is all I care about in the pulleys. I will think about a hi-flow waterpump down the road but for now its fine.

jimberg--thats for all the info on the thermostat..I know how they work though

To sum it up it less words than you did:
Once my motor heats up to 160 degrees..The thermo opens up to cool it down.

I tried a 180 before but by the time my temp hit 180..My temp guage never would stop rising..

------------------
347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley AFPR, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 73mm Vortech MAF, 70mm TB, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del, rear seat del.

Rick 91GT · 06-14-2001, 03:07 PM

Stewart Componets- Hi-Flow unpolished $69, polished $89.

The thing with the thermo is that with a 180 in and YOUR radiator the temp still rose. This means that your radiator isn't efficent enough to cool the water thus the thermo is open all the time and the water is never in the radiator long enough to cool down, the 160 is just masking the problem, but it runs cool so your happy and I understand that.

The Stweart pump also evenly distrubtues the water to both heads which is important when running alum heads, can't get those too hot or the'll warp. How was the engine cool? What temp does the fan come on, if you get a fan controller (Advanced Auto has one for $20) you can have it come on earlier at a lower temp this might prevent it heating up too quickly as well.

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

Smokedawg · 06-14-2001, 03:14 PM

Thats alot cheaper for a waterpump than what I had thought..My 17in Permacool fan replaced my stock clutch fan. I got my fan that is mounted infront of the radiator set to come on at 180 degrees. I got a adjustable switch so I can set the electic one to come on and off as i please

jimberg · 06-14-2001, 03:20 PM

Everything I write isn't necessarily targeted at the person who started the thread but hopefully relevant to the discussion. A lot of people come on here searching for answers and it's nice to find them. You have "Heating Problems Gone" as the title and hundreds of people with heating problems will read this thread.

You did seem to disregard what I said, though. If you can't stop the temp from rising at 180, what makes you think you can stop it at 160? Before you respond, are you comparing your engine now with a 160 t-stat and no underive pulley to your engine with a 180 t-stat and the underdrive pulley?

You're right, though, if it's fixed to your satisfaction and you are happy with giving up the power by not using the underdrive pulleys, than that's fine. My suggestion was a way to keep the pulleys and fix the heating problem.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[This message has been edited by jimberg (edited 06-14-2001).]

06-14-2001, 01:08 PM	#1
Smokedawg Tires Fear Me... Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 867	Heating Problems Gone!! Well, I appreciate everyones help with helping me find my heating problem. So far I have went to a 3-core radiator...160 Thermostat...17in Perma-cool fan...Electric fan in front of the radiator to push air through in stop and go driving...And 2 quarts of EnginKool.. Well, I got to experimenting the other day and took off my underdrive waterpump pulley and put my stock one back on...Problem Fixed..Has anyone else had this problem before?? ------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley AFPR, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 73mm Vortech MAF, 70mm TB, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del, rear seat del.

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06-14-2001, 01:39 PM	#2
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Glad to hear you got it fixed, I have never had a problem with the underdrive water pump pulley and cooling. I would get a nice hi-flow water pump like a Stewart or E-brock. I run a 180 thermo, Ron Davis Radiator, 16" Perma-Cool fan and a Stewart pump and even in 90 degrees heat, it never gets over 190degrees and thats when I am sitting at a red light. ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

06-14-2001, 02:01 PM	#3
Smokedawg Tires Fear Me... Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 867	How much money are we talking for a hi-flow water pump??

06-14-2001, 02:18 PM	#4
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	I was thinking about how cooling systems work on the way home yesterday as I watched my needle rise in stop and go traffic. I find it intesting that people think a thermostat will fix the problem. The idea of a thermostat is to keep the water in the engine until it reaches a certain operating temperature and then when it reaches that temperature allows the water to start circulating through the radiator until it cools down enough to close the thermostat again. If it doesn't cool down sufficiently to close a 198 degree thermostat, why would it cool down sufficiently to close a 160 degree thermostat? Is it easier to remove heat from 160 degree water than it is 198 degree water? No, of course not. If the temp keeps rising with a 198 it will keep rising with a 160. The benefit of a higher temp thermostat is that it will also keep the water in the radiator long enough to cool off. When the coolant starts flowing, the colder fluid will mix with the warmer fluid until it hopefully reaches an equilibrium temperature lower than the temp of the thermostat and the process starts all over again. I suppose that based on this, overheating can be caused by several different reasons. The thermostat is bad and stuck closed so that water never flows. The waterpump isn't pushing the coolant through fast enough so the water is getting heated up in the block as it gets pushed through and is never able to obtain an equilibrium below the rating of the thermostat. The radiator doesn't have enough heat exchange efficiency to keep up with the heat generated by the engine. This is probably where most of us fit. Sorry, it's just been one of those contemplating type of days. Rick has a good suggestion. Replace the water pump with a high flow pump. That will make up for the underdrive. I don't know if it would cause more drag, though, negating the effect of the underdrive. A good, monster aluminum radiator and a stock water pump may work equally well and will not cause the drag problem. If you're running a 50/50 antifreeze mix, it may be a good idea to go to 75% water since it releases heat faster than anti-freeze. Keep the anti-freeze for lubrication and corrosion protection. you should also use a hotter thermostat. 180 minimum, maybe even something higher. Get a good high flow one, not a cheapy from the local autoparts store. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

06-14-2001, 02:25 PM	#5
Smokedawg Tires Fear Me... Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 867	As I already stated.."THE HEATING PROBLEM IS FIXED!"..I am not going to go switching my thermostat or radiator..I am still running my underdrive crank pulley which is all I care about in the pulleys. I will think about a hi-flow waterpump down the road but for now its fine. jimberg--thats for all the info on the thermostat..I know how they work though To sum it up it less words than you did: Once my motor heats up to 160 degrees..The thermo opens up to cool it down. I tried a 180 before but by the time my temp hit 180..My temp guage never would stop rising.. ------------------ 347 Stroker Motor: Balanced, Cobra Transmission, Extrude Ported and Polished Upper and ported Lower, GT40 Milled Ported and Polished Heads, B303 Cam, BBK 1 5/8 Headers, 30lb Bosch Injectors, Holley AFPR, March Underdrive Pulleys, Perma-Cool Fan, 3-Core Radiator, Accel Performance Coil, Accel 300+ Racing Wires, Ram Air, K&N Filter, 73mm Vortech MAF, 70mm TB, FlowMaster Exhaust w/BBK Offroad H-Pipe, Hurst Shifter, 3:55 Gears, Ram Clutch, Cross Drilled Rotors, AC del, rear seat del.

06-14-2001, 03:07 PM	#6
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Stewart Componets- Hi-Flow unpolished $69, polished $89. The thing with the thermo is that with a 180 in and YOUR radiator the temp still rose. This means that your radiator isn't efficent enough to cool the water thus the thermo is open all the time and the water is never in the radiator long enough to cool down, the 160 is just masking the problem, but it runs cool so your happy and I understand that. The Stweart pump also evenly distrubtues the water to both heads which is important when running alum heads, can't get those too hot or the'll warp. How was the engine cool? What temp does the fan come on, if you get a fan controller (Advanced Auto has one for $20) you can have it come on earlier at a lower temp this might prevent it heating up too quickly as well. ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

06-14-2001, 03:14 PM	#7
Smokedawg Tires Fear Me... Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 867	Thats alot cheaper for a waterpump than what I had thought..My 17in Permacool fan replaced my stock clutch fan. I got my fan that is mounted infront of the radiator set to come on at 180 degrees. I got a adjustable switch so I can set the electic one to come on and off as i please

06-14-2001, 03:20 PM	#8
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Everything I write isn't necessarily targeted at the person who started the thread but hopefully relevant to the discussion. A lot of people come on here searching for answers and it's nice to find them. You have "Heating Problems Gone" as the title and hundreds of people with heating problems will read this thread. You did seem to disregard what I said, though. If you can't stop the temp from rising at 180, what makes you think you can stop it at 160? Before you respond, are you comparing your engine now with a 160 t-stat and no underive pulley to your engine with a 180 t-stat and the underdrive pulley? You're right, though, if it's fixed to your satisfaction and you are happy with giving up the power by not using the underdrive pulleys, than that's fine. My suggestion was a way to keep the pulleys and fix the heating problem. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible [This message has been edited by jimberg (edited 06-14-2001).]